Upping The Volume To 150l

[hamstringsally]

Im only weeks away from running my new setup which is around the 150 or so mark. the boil pot is 200l and the mash tun around 250 so i figure to be safe try around 150 to begin with. All my brews have been around the 23 to 25l mark on my old set up but is there anything that i might have to change apart from getting the hang of the new system like temp drops and heating times ect.

do i basically run the recipe as per but times the amounts by 6? or are there a few things that might alter once i go the extra 125l?

cheers

hammo

 

[manticle]

Probably need to do a water only run to calculate evaporation losses etc which will be different on this system. Apart from that, taking a simple recipe you have tried before and are familiar with will give you the numbers you need to recalculate efficiency etc.

Also you'll need a really big cube and to upgrade your corona mill.

 

[bignath]

Dont quote me on this, but i dont think its quite so simple to multiply additions and stuff by 6. I havent actually run any numbers to check but im sure i read somewhere here that scaling is different to multiplying to get the correct quantities.

If you use brewing software, try scaling your recipe to the batch size you want to brew, and then compare that to what it would be like if you simply multiplied everything by six.

 

[manticle]

It isn't as simple as that but if using new equipment, you need to recalculate everything anyway so rough scaling is probably as good a place to start as any. I agree though that typing in an old single batch recipe to software and seeing what differences it suggests when you scale that way will give an indication.

If boiling more in the same kettle, your evaporation losses will be the same volume over the same time frame (might be more loss to trub though) which alters calculations. ie: if you lose 10 litres an hour from a 30 L pre-boil, you will lose 10 L an hour from a 50 L preboil, in the same kettle with the same burner on at the same pressure.

To my mind, it really is a matter of getting to know what to expect from your new equipment and adjusting from there. Don't expect an exact replica brew of your house beer the first time around.

 

[tallie]

Also you'll need a really big cube and to upgrade your corona mill.

Here's your cube option sorted: http://www.kingtainer.com/en/ibc.asp h34r:


Can't give you any tips from experience, but I'd be wanting to make sure your brew stand is up to the task - 150L of 70-100C liquid could end up doing a lot of damage if something were to fail.

Cheers,
tallie

 

[manticle]

Here's your cube option sorted: http://www.kingtainer.com/en/ibc.asp h34r:

In that case - also need a knee upgrade to squeeze out all the air.

 

[stux]

In that case - also need a knee upgrade to squeeze out all the air.

Tipping it on its side is going to be hard too

not to mention shaking it to aerate

 

[donburke]

Im only weeks away from running my new setup which is around the 150 or so mark. the boil pot is 200l and the mash tun around 250 so i figure to be safe try around 150 to begin with. All my brews have been around the 23 to 25l mark on my old set up but is there anything that i might have to change apart from getting the hang of the new system like temp drops and heating times ect.

do i basically run the recipe as per but times the amounts by 6? or are there a few things that might alter once i go the extra 125l?

cheers

hammo

i reckon your temp drop will be less than with a smaller mash, bigger volumes have a larger thermal mass and tend to hold temp rather well

 

[kelbygreen]

as manticle says there is a few things, I guess from start to finish.

1. Will be your mash tun loss (you can roughly work this out with wet run)
2. Will be your boil off volume (you can work this out with wet run), wider pots will boil off larger volume and you want about 10% minimum per hour or total if you want to boil for longer.
3. Will be your trub loss, this will vary on the pot and ingredients you use but you can guess it to start with and then calculate that later.
4. Will be your efficiency this will be different to your old setup and is impossible to guess till you do a brew, you can ether try to brew bigger beer you may go more or less, or you can try brew a normal beer and settle with a mid strength or a full strength but you should be able to work it out roughly after the first one.

I guess if you brew a beer as it should and falls short and you can get malt extract to boost it this is not a issue but make sure you calculate you efficiency first. Then you can do a few mid strength and a few full strength

 

[esssee]

the boil pot is 200l and the mash tun around 250

Photos, or it didn't happen.

 

[stakka82]

i reckon your temp drop will be less than with a smaller mash, bigger volumes have a larger thermal mass and tend to hold temp rather well

one of the few things i vaguely remember from high school maths was that temperature loss over time was dependent on the mass of the object, according to newton's law of cooling. larger mass = slower cooling.

also if u think about it the bigger the vessel of heated water, the smaller its surface area to volume ratio.

 

[chalky]

Yes, that will be the case.

Picture a bathtub and a coffee mug both full of 67 degree C water. Which one will be warmer after an hour?

i reckon your temp drop will be less than with a smaller mash, bigger volumes have a larger thermal mass and tend to hold temp rather well

 

[chalky]

Don't chuck out your old fermenter, for 150L of 1.055 O.G Ale I calculated you'll need a ~21L starter.

How are you going to cool and ferment that much wort?

I also like how nobody has asked why you want to make a 150L batch - meaning it's a perfectly normal thing to do in your garage right? :lol:

 

[argon]

one of the few things i vaguely remember from high school maths was that temperature loss over time was dependent on the mass of the object, according to newton's law of cooling. larger mass = slower cooling.

also if u think about it the bigger the vessel of heated water, the smaller its surface area to volume ratio.

Not necessarily true... You are more then likely going to have a much greater surface area. Unless you're brewing in a vessel the same diameter as your smaller batch one, only 3 times taller. Greater the surface area exposed to lower temps will lead to greater heat loss.

 

[punkin]

Don't chuck out your old fermenter, for 150L of 1.055 O.G Ale I calculated you'll need a ~21L starter.

How are you going to cool and ferment that much wort?

I also like how nobody has asked why you want to make a 150L batch - meaning it's a perfectly normal thing to do in your garage right? :lol:

Makes sense to me. I just got a 140l fermenter so i can brew 90l batches once a fortnight instead of 44l batches every w'end. Doesn't take much more time to brew 4 kegs worth as it does to brew two and leaves me a morning free on the second w'ends for my other hobbies B)

Good for house beers.

 

[bear09]

All I gotta ask is, is this all for you?? 150L batches - you must have a lot of mates!!!!

 

[stux]

Did someone say 21L starters?

http://www.stir-plate.com/BlackMAXX.htm

 

[Malted]

If you are investing that much money into equipment and brewing ingredients - spend an extra 20 bucks on a Beersmith licence.

 

[MarkBastard]

I also like how nobody has asked why you want to make a 150L batch - meaning it's a perfectly normal thing to do in your garage right? :lol:

Haha, first thing I thought is why am I not doing the same.

 

[hamstringsally]

one of the few things i vaguely remember from high school maths was that temperature loss over time was dependent on the mass of the object, according to newton's law of cooling. larger mass = slower cooling.

also if u think about it the bigger the vessel of heated water, the smaller its surface area to volume ratio.

i thought that might be the case. does that mean though that i will need a higher strike temp though? my last temp drop when adding into mash was 7 deg