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Up Scaling

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freek

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Hello home brew community.

I have been reading many of your posts including an old one by hamstringsally about large up-scaling batches and it has left me confused about some of the finer points. I thought it would be best to start a new thread to resume the discussion. [topic="60436"]Old post[/topic]

In this topic some have suggested that you cannot simply multiply your ingredients by 5 (for example) to get 5 times the batch size.

Bulk density is raised as an here, but I am not sure of its relevance since all the recipes I have used are mass based (i.e everything measured in g or kg). Here is how my simple brain works:

5 x (batch size) needs
5 x (sugar mass extracted) needs
5 x (grain mass) not (grain volume)
5 x (energy requirements for heating and cooling)- this will be the hard part.

I understand that if it takes longer heat between rest points and cool then this may affect flavour/alcohol content/bitterness/hop profile etc, however I believe this can be controlled.

For the massive energy upscale, (if I ever get around to doing it) I would plan to:
  • Thoroughly insulate mash tun and kettle
  • Combine electric elements with town gas burners on the same tun (currently using 2.4kW means I would need about 13kW total heat input which is achievable)
  • Utilising a hopback (for aroma hops) in-line with my 40,000L heat exchanger (mistaken by the family for a swimming pool). This is where I run copper coils through the pool. I believe I can up the flow rate 5 times with longer/larger diameter tubing and a stronger pump.
So my question is; does multiplying a recipe still not work even if you still have the same control over temperature?
Knowing what I am trying to achieve any other suggestions would be more than welcome.

Cheers
Freek
 

manticle

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Evaporation rate is one thing to consider.

eg a kettle that loses 10 L per hour will lose 10 L per hour whether you have 15 L or 50 L in the kettle at the start.

For any equipment's first time run, you need to work out your own numbers (mash efficiency, volumes, losses etc) and scale from there.

You can start with 5 times (or 4 times or 6 times) as a simple guide from which to tweak but simple multiplication will not give simple replication.
 

freek

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Yeah good point.

Normally what I do is boil off more than I should, then late in the boil add more water to get the the final volume I am chasing. Is that the norm or is it bad practice? I haven't had any problems so far.
 

manticle

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You could do that but why not try and calculate so you don't have to?

The wort gravity you have during your boil will influence your hop utilisation too.

All depends how worried you are about repeatability - while I know my numbers, my palate and my equipment, repeatability is the least of my concerns when either cooking or brewing. If I were to brew commercially, it might be a different story.
 

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