Two Can Screamer

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fergi

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i want to put another kit brew on tomorrow but lhbs is not open,i was figuring on going to the supermarket and buying two home brand cans ,all i have then is cluster hops, POR, and liquid liquorice.also coopers pale ale yeast that i had from under the lid of a coopers can. i want a quick brew to throw into a keg in a couple of weeks.i know i should wait until next week to get something descent but im thinking two cans of home brand draught then adding some of the hops that i have available,by the way,the hops have been in the fridge,butter compartment for at least 18 months,always wrapped in their little plastic bags but i would imagine have lost a bit,they are both ...cluster usa pellets,6/8 % and the POR 9% THINKING with the two cans it will be a lot more hop flavored than just one can and a can of malt,any ideas on a recipe here.
cheers
fergi
 
2 cans will certainly be more bitter, but more flavourful from a hop perspective? don't really know about that.
If it were me, I'd go with a single, tin of coopers PA, 1kg malt (or a tin of lme if have it), POR 15min and dry hop with cluster.
 
I can absolutely swear by a plain twocan of Coopers original series lager and by all means put in some finishing hops, but no bittering required.
It comes out around the same bitterness as VB - the lager is the lowest IBU in their original range according to the website. I've made three of them and the last one prompted a buddy to zoom round to his LHBS and take up brewing himself.

It will certainly be a screamer, just use one kit yeast because every one I have done has blown through the airlock. It also tastes great when young.

I often think that this particular recipe highlights what Coopers could produce as a 3.5k kit if they had a mind to. However more profit in K&K and enhancer type brews I suppose.

Hope you get this before you head for the supermarket!
 
I can absolutely swear by a plain twocan of Coopers original series lager and by all means put in some finishing hops, but no bittering required.
It comes out around the same bitterness as VB - the lager is the lowest IBU in their original range according to the website. I've made three of them and the last one prompted a buddy to zoom round to his LHBS and take up brewing himself.

It will certainly be a screamer, just use one kit yeast because every one I have done has blown through the airlock. It also tastes great when young.

I often think that this particular recipe highlights what Coopers could produce as a 3.5k kit if they had a mind to. However more profit in K&K and enhancer type brews I suppose.

Hope you get this before you head for the supermarket!


BG,

Do you use any adjuncts, dextrose etc., or just 2 cans and the yeast?

ta

Dave
 
Thinking about it in the light of a sober day....

My issue with toucan brews is that they are too bitter for my tastes, and sometimes I forget that this is my taste. ;)

Bribie has mentioned the original lager before, and if I were to do a toucan, that would be the one I would choose. But having said that, the coopers PA is actually slightly less bitter than the lager (at least according to coopers), so a toucan coopers PA would probably be a goer as well, with no bittering, just finishing hops. (as would the cerveza and the euro lager, but personally I'm not overly keen on those two however they're done.)

Either way, for those interested in the numbers, a toucan to 23L with no adjuncts would give 1045 OG, predicted fg based on 70-75%attenuation of 1013, abv of 4.32% + bottling (aprox 0.5%).
(Obviously, fg and abv are estimates, and will vary depending on yeast and additional adjuncts, et al.)
 
Thanks for those figures butters. That calculated abv is a bit low for me, and as I keg
(no priming sugar), I will have to add some dex to up it to around 5.5 - 6.

All I gotta do now is wait till we get another $9.60 a can special at the local IGA.

cheers

Dave
 
Dave: yes, just as is from the LHBS and only use one of the yeasts or some Nottingham if I've got a spare bottle in the fridge from an ale brew. Haven't got one left at the moment or I'd drop one round to chez vous - I'll pm you when I do one next and we could do a taste test if you are interested (basically I will be doing them right through the summer for my 'lager' brews with the odd partial inbetween times)

Butters: I must admit I've never taken a SG reading but based on Cooper's info on their BE2 pack (not all of which is fermentable) a kit plus a kilo of BE2 at 23 litres should - according to the Coopers Gods - produce a brew of 4.6 abv. Translating this to the toucan which is like a kit plus about 1.3 kg of adjunct (a convoluted way of saying an extra kit with the water theoretically removed) I was always under the impression that a plain toucan would come out at nearer to or a bit above 5%??

The lager toucan gives a commercial megaswill bitterness IMHO but little aroma.
 
No worries. Actually, wanting a higher ABV (which isn't my thing at all) gives you a little bit of flexibility....If the bitterness of the toucan is right (for your tastes), up the fermentables using dex. If the bitterness is too much for your tastes, up the fermentables using ldm, which will help balance the additional bitterness.

If the bitterness level of a toucan is too low, you can use a higher bitterness tin for one (or both), or do a hop boil. Either way, you then make up the fermentable with either dex or malt, the choice then coming down to how much body you want at the end.

The only time that you really run into issues with toucans are if you are like me, and want a fairly low bitterness and a low ABV. You can have one or the other, but not both. (at least not easily :lol: )
 
Butters: I must admit I've never taken a SG reading but based on Cooper's info on their BE2 pack (not all of which is fermentable) a kit plus a kilo of BE2 at 23 litres should - according to the Coopers Gods - produce a brew of 4.6 abv. Translating this to the toucan which is like a kit plus about 1.3 kg of adjunct (a convoluted way of saying an extra kit with the water theoretically removed) I was always under the impression that a plain toucan would come out at nearer to or a bit above 5%??

Never believe everything you read. ;)
I'm fairly sure you've got my spreadsheet, if not I'll repost it. But, lets work on 75% apparant attenuation of yeast for the final figures. The OG's of course are unrelated to yeast, and purely relate to fermentables added (which for dry ingredients will vary slightly depending on what it is, but not much more than a point either way at a kilo). Lets look at some differences. ABV is post-primary, pre bottling.

1.7kg liquid malt, and any 1kg of dry adjunct, irrespective of if it is dex, maltodextrine or ldm, will give OG of 1.039 in 23L, ie 2.36kg extract weight.
for 100% dex, then fg would be 1.007 with ABV of 4.25%
for 100% ldm, then fg would be 1.010 with ABV of 3.88%
for BE2, then fg would be 1.012 with ABV of 3.65% (with BE2 being 250g ldm, 250g maltodextrin, and 500g dextrose).

Changing to liquid malts, in 1.7 kg tins, toucan would give extract weight of 1.36x2, ie 2.72Kg. In 23L this would give OG 1045, with fg 1.011 and abv of 4.47%. (the figure in my previous post used an average of 70-75% Atten. This one uses 75%.)

For an extract brew, 2x1.5kg tins, this would give an extract weight of 2.4kg, OG of 1.040, and a fg of 1.010 and abv of 3.94%....add a 250g crystal steep to this, and it would push the OG and fg up by about a point or 2...starting to get into familiar teritory here......

Some brewing software will give figures higher than this (beersmith, for one.) But other software gives the same results as what I get (eg brewsta). One thing I do know, I always, always, even to this day, take an OG. and when I did my sheet up, I went back through my logs,crunched the numbers, and compared it to the empirical data. And it all matched within a couple of points, over the course of about 20 brews in the log. (I gave up logging every last detail at this point, as my next 20 or so brews were pretty much unchanged, then I went to AG, which is obviously a different kettle of fish)
 
buttersd,i think your calculations are probably spot on,i just finished doing the two can screamer and og came out at 1050.i had to use coles brand lager as they were out of coopers so i just thought i would try it,dont really know why i am wasting my time ,i guess now that ive got a keg system i want some quick backup.anyway two cans went in to the fermenter,with 21 litres water, i used a pkt of coopers pale ale yeast with it,the thing that i did wrong was i put 30 grms of cluster hops into a cup then filled it up with boiling water,let it sit for 15 minutes then tossed it into the brew.now im not sure wether that will make it really hoppy but when i did the og i tasted it and it was like razor blades slashing my tongue,thinking about it im not sure wether it was the stuff on the bottom that may have been a bit stronger,what do you think about the hops,have i killed this batch off
cheers
fergi
 
don't worry about the hops adding additional bitterness, a sitting steep for 15 minutes will add flavour but very little bitterness. Don't be overly concerned about the bitterness of the unfermented wort, it's not surprising at all. And yes, 2 cans in 21L works out to exactly 1.050 ;)
 
2 cans in 21L works out to exactly 1.050 ;)

Grew my beer gland in the UK getting totally plastered on five or six pints of Newcastle Exhibition, Clubs Federation Special, Vaux Samson Ale or (Cardiff) Brain's Special Ale, all at around 1.042. Sounds good to me :lol:
 
I can absolutely swear by a plain twocan of Coopers original series lager and by all means put in some finishing hops, but no bittering required.
It comes out around the same bitterness as VB - the lager is the lowest IBU in their original range according to the website. I've made three of them and the last one prompted a buddy to zoom round to his LHBS and take up brewing himself.

It will certainly be a screamer, just use one kit yeast because every one I have done has blown through the airlock. It also tastes great when young.

I often think that this particular recipe highlights what Coopers could produce as a 3.5k kit if they had a mind to. However more profit in K&K and enhancer type brews I suppose.

Hope you get this before you head for the supermarket!


Hi there

I've been reading about your passion for this twocan and it inspired me to try it, although I did add 250g of Maltodextrin to hopefully give it better head retention. I can see why you advise to use just one yeast!. Without a fridge I had to brew it at 20-22C (mid september melbourne) which is higher than I'd of liked but better than I can get now.

I'm going to taste it after a month - really looking forward to it!

thanks Jim
 
Bribie you have convinced me to try this toucan as well. My previous toucan was a toothys lager which was yuck. I swore off toucans but your resolve has convinced me to try this one.
 
I have a toucan of Mogans Golden Saaz Pilsner @ 23L fermenting atm. OG was 1.050

Did this a few years back as a single can made to 11.5L with no adjuncts and it's quite tasty.

Always looking for toucan ideas... have to try yours Bribie.

Cheers

Sully
 
Go for it. Next time I happen on some Coopers original series on special I'll do two or even three fermenters in parallel and that should top up my 'lager' style brews well into the new year. I live a 50K round trip from KMart and Big W at Morayfield so find it difficult to keep my finger on the pulse. I sometimes hear on the forum about 8 or 9 buck deals, would be sweet if I can fluke one of those and do a bulk buy :icon_cheers:
 
Go for it. Next time I happen on some Coopers original series on special I'll do two or even three fermenters in parallel and that should top up my 'lager' style brews well into the new year. I live a 50K round trip from KMart and Big W at Morayfield so find it difficult to keep my finger on the pulse. I sometimes hear on the forum about 8 or 9 buck deals, would be sweet if I can fluke one of those and do a bulk buy :icon_cheers:

I am just around the corner in Narangba and go to the Morayfield Shopping Centre a few times a week, so I will keep an eye out for specials and let you know.

Cheers

Sully.
 
Thanks Sully, don't put yourself out unnecessarily but I would appreciate any heads-up

toucan.jpg

:lol: :lol:
 
Recently I did a Coopers sparkling Ale to 12 litres came out bitter as.Tried for quick quaffer into freinds keg. No good.
To those who want to have a go at a toucan take Bribies advive and dont go any more bitter than the lager with coopers kits. At $30 + or - for cans a bad result can linger. :icon_drool2:
I have since found better results adding 1.5kg of liquid pale malt then dry hop if wanted.
Just my 2 cents :icon_cheers:
Daz
 
Good idea, my very first brew in June when I got back into home brewing after a fifteen year absence, was a Morgans Pilsener plus a 1.5 can of liquid malt extract plus a saaz teabag. I had one archive bottle left which I cracked two weeks ago and my tasting panel reckoned it was the best beer I have ever made.

It's sort of a toucan. The basic problem with toucans is that if they contain a lot of iso hop extract to give bitterness then a toucan doubles the bitterness so there are basically two strategies:

1. use a low IBU kit which is why I get great results with Coopers Lager
2. accept that it is going to be very bitter, so balance it out with heaps and heaps of extra malt extract / do a mini mash etc.

My toucan Coopers Stout is bloody lovely but to balance it out I had to use a kilo of LDME and 750 of dex, which did the job despite the fact that the stout is , IIRC, the highest IBU in the Coopers original range. It's also a killer that needs to be drunk out of very small glasses :D
 
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