Too Sweet?

[flattop]

Following my first 2 brews i have decided to play around a little.
Using Coopers cans as a base i have pitched 2 new brews but i wonder if they aren't going to finish way too sweet.
I have 2 aims in mind
1 to lift the alc contents slightly
2 to make a brew nice enough for the ministry of war and finance to drink (currently likes St George)

Brew 1
Coopers Dark Ale (i have another 4 of these cans $6 runout at coles...)
1.2k Dex
approx 300mls LME
standard yeast pitched 2 days ago

Brew 2
Coopers Lager
1.2k Dex
approx 200mls LME
Approx 200ml yeast crud from the bottom of a Bavarian Wheat Brew pitched today
(SAAF i think).

 

[brendo]

Firstly welcome...

Secondly - I don't think it will end up too sweet - dextrose will pretty much ferment out fully - it won't add any body, just alcohol.

Good to see you have some LME in there, however, my advice next time would be to reduce the dex significantly and up the malt. This will do a couple of things - add far more body to your brew and give you a nice malty taste.

The only thing to remember is that using lots of malt extract will mean you may want some more hops to take off some of the sweetness as malt extract does not ferment out completley so will leave some residual sweetness.

Good luck and keep up the good work.

Brendo

 

[buttersd70]

They won't end up too sweet. Most of the kits (particularly coopers) are designed to be used in conjunction with around 250g dme with the remainder of the adjunct being made up with other fermentables that leave no residual sweetness (dex and maltodex). That being said, you can usually get away with a little bit more malt before it becomes too sweet (without adding additonal hops). Some of the kits are more hopped than others...the Dark ale, for example, and can take even more malt, but even for the hoppier kits, it usually (but not always) tops out at around the 500g mark. (edit: before you need to add more hops). 300mL of lme works out to aproximately 220g of dme, so I don't see any issue at all with it being sweeter than it was designed to be.

The large amount of dextrose will lead to it being very light in body, though, worst case being it may be a bit watery.

Reccomendations for adjuncts for some of the coopers range are on their website, under the 'brewcans' section. My opinion is, at least in the case of coopers, unless otherwise stated they have made kits with BE2 in mind (250g ldm 250g maltodextrin 500g dex). Obviously, you can tweak way beyond that.

 

[flattop]

Hmm i considered a light hop, but as i want slight sweetness i took the gamble. Bit of a worry it get's a bit watery though.
Ok next time i will reduce the dex and increase the malt, and perhaps a light hop.
Of course there are two different bases here with almost the same mix of fermentables.

 

[mwd]

Coopers Dark Ale usually turns out pretty much drinkable without a lot of additions. I would agree more malt would make it much better.

Wish I could find it at $6.00 a can I would buy a load too, good find.

Just started drinking a 'Toucan' Molloys Stout and Dark Ale and it is superb and only been in the bottle less than two weeks. :icon_drunk:

 

[buttersd70]

there appears to me to be a general trend that the darker a kit goes, the less stuffing around you need to do to make it drinkable....pretty much all of the lighter kits ware underhopped imho, and I don't even like beer thats too hoppy. I think if the manufacturers had an ounce of sense, they'd aim the kits with the intent of adding a kilo of malt instead of the cheaper nastier adjuncts....I actually think their business would increase, cos there'd be less people getting dissilusioned with the kits, and either giving up or moving up to extracts.....just a thought.

 

[flattop]

Hmm the lager is giving me some grief today, i think my fermenter is not sealing too well.
Looks like the yeast is working ok, i have a nice frothy head on the wort (i pitched liquid so it definitely sunk in) but no airlock activity (obvious leak).
I had to pop the top off, reseat the o ring, Vaseline it and put it back on. I have positive pressure now but i think the yeast is making tough work of it.

Brings me to another point, i have 3 fermenters Cooper kit, LHBS, and a cheap Bunnings 25 liter water barrel used for racking.
Coopers kit (fantastic)
LHBS (really hard to seal properly can see air spots around the top of the o ring through the clear lid)
Bunnings (really crap, top of the barrel is crooked and difficult to seal - had to Vaseline it)

Tropical, i would post you a can but the postage would outweigh the cost of buying one.... I bought 5-6 for that price and i left one behind... now i regret that....

Butters i think that the price of malt kinda forces the situation a little, eg;
1kilo light DME $9.50 LHBS
1Kilo Dex $3.50 LHBS
I know you can pick LDME other places cheaper but i am not sure of the quality.

 

[Bribie G]

Butters i think that the price of malt kinda forces the situation a little, eg;
1kilo light DME $9.50 LHBS
1Kilo Dex $3.50 LHBS
I know you can pick LDME other places cheaper but i am not sure of the quality.

+1.

On topic: Early on in the piece I had great results with a basic kit like Coopers Lager or Morgans Pilsener plus 500 ldme, 750 dex and a hop teabag to add a bit off oomph to the flavour.

Slightly off topic: I agree about the price of LDME and especially liquid malt. I have been doing mini mashes recently and as an experiment I have just brewed and bottled:

• Coopers Lager
• 1 kilo cracked malt from Ross, mashed at 68 degrees and the wort boiled with a small amount of green bullet flowers for extra bittering, Saaz B flowers 20 mins and Saaz B flowers 5 minutes.
• I kilo dex

Nottingham yeast for cleaner flavour and flocculation.

I have put extra LMDE, at least a kilo, in all my previous partial mashed brews. The idea of the current exercise is to produce a light tasting Australian style beer without that malt extract twang, and for the same or less cost as using LDME. The kilo of grain malt was about $4. I had a taste on bottling and it has that fresh malty aftertaste and will be hoppy and about the same alcohol as a commercial brew, and presumably better mouthfeel, head and bead than a pure K&K.

Downside is that it takes up an afternoon but it's an experiment only.

 

[flattop]

Bribie, I assume you don't condition the cracked grain malt further than mashing it or is there preparation required?
Also i noticed that you are adding 2k of fermentables, wouldn't that produce a higher alc than commercial brews?

 

[Bribie G]

I simply mash the kilo in a jug with hot water for an hour, in a water bath in an esky. Need a thermometer of course. Then drain and, using more hot water, rinse it ("sparge" it) through a wire strainer into a 10L stockpot and boil for an hour with hop additions. It's exactly the same as doing an all grain brew but one-fifth-scale.

Although the grain is a kilo you would only get the equivalent of maybe 300g of LDME out of it - not sure of exactly how much, the AG brewers would have a better idea. The main idea is to get body and flavour out of it rather than just alcohol-producing sugars which is why I mashed it at 68.
The lower the temperature you mash, (for example 64 degrees) the more the enzymes will produce sugars and leave less complex carbs that produce the body and head retention etc.

That's how the commercial breweries produce their low carb beers like Tooheys Extra Dry. And also why so many of them taste shyte <_<

 

[flattop]

Ok got it so in the end you would have only 1.3k of fermentables anyhow (but with a better flavor).

Temp control would be my issue, i have an electric hotplate... terrible for control, perhaps i could use the gas ring on the bbq....

 

[buttersd70]

Although the grain is a kilo you would only get the equivalent of maybe 300g of LDME out of it - not sure of exactly how much, the AG brewers would have a better idea. The main idea is to get body and flavour out of it rather than just alcohol-producing sugars which is why I mashed it at 68.
The lower the temperature you mash, (for example 64 degrees) the more the enzymes will produce sugars and leave less complex carbs that produce the body and head retention etc.

+1 for mashing fairly hot on partials, even if a reasonably light-ish body is required. In AG, you would vary the mash temp as bribie said, to alter the fermentability of the wort. In a partial mash, though, imho, you would mash hotter, because you can then use that to counteract the higher reletive fermentability of the extracts.

The actual extract equivilant from a kilo of mashed grain is dependant on the efficiency of the mash, and is a bit hard to nail down specifically without actually checking samples, because it's equipment based, in part. But for a kg of JW trad ale, you should be able to hit 70% efficiency very easily, because of the smaller scale, and the amount of water you would have available to play with....I usually calculate recipes on 70% for all grain (although usually come in higher) and 80% for partials (because the sparge is much more effective due to having more water available). 70% should give you somewhere in the equivilant amount of just over 500g ldm.