Tips for Lager Brewing

[Lindsay Dive]

I have making Lagers for a considerable time now. I almost always have lagers fermenting. Since Best Maltz introduced their Heidelberg Malt, I have switched to that Malt exclusively with the addition of 5.4% Best Wheat Malt and 6.6% Best Caramel Malt pils (Cara Pils). Mash at 66 degrees C for 90 minutes. Boil for 90 minutes with four additions of Motueka Hops with the first going into the boiler with the first Malt. Then I have equal additions at 60 minutes, 10 minutes and again at 2 minutes. I use Saflager W - 34/70 yeast using 14 grams per 25 litre fermenter. Ferment in a chest freezer which holds 6 x 25 litre fermenters at 8 - 10 degrees until the Krausen falls. I the turn off the chest freezer and introduce a fan to expel all the cold air and raise the ferment temperature to whatever the ambiant temperature is. I maintain that ambient temperate for about 5 days. I then crash the temperature down to zero and leave for another 6 or more days. I Keg using 2 teaspoons of gelatine per a fifty litre Keg.
I use the same yeast for three generations. I Keg at the next planned brewing day and dump the new fresh wort directly onto the last yeast cake. I do not wash the fermenters during the use of the three generations, just Keg and dump the new wort. After the second generation of yeast and after kegging, I remove two large soup ladles of the yeast cake and discard, then dump the new fresh wort onto the remaining yeast cake. I never get infections. I have never been game enough to go for a fourth generation though. I find this method is a big cost saving.
I clean the fermenters with Caustic Soda.
Happy Lager Brewing.

 

[Haciluku]

Just finished a pilsner with 20g Saaz and 20g Motueka cube hopping. It tastes a bit grassy before the carbonation. Hope it will fade away.
I don't think I will be doing cube hopping again.

 

[labels]

Just finished a pilsner with 20g Saaz and 20g Motueka cube hopping. It tastes a bit grassy before the carbonation. Hope it will fade away.
I don't think I will be doing cube hopping again.

You were warned about grassiness from late hopping lagers. Yes, it will fade but may take some time.

 

[Lindsay Dive]

You were warned about grassiness from late hopping lagers. Yes, it will fade but may take some time.

All depends on what hop you choose to use. In the mid eighties I used to mostly use Saaz, however, I found the quality of the hop pellets compared to the hop plugs differed enormously. It's almost impossible to find Saaz hop plugs these days here is Oz, but, I used to prefer them over pellets. Yes, I did do ONE Lager a few years ago using wholly and solely Saaz pellets that included late and very late hopping. Grassiness. I would suggest to the Saaz users to work out your IBU's with only two additions to the boil, nothing later than fifteen minutes.
Now, I find the beer pigs (guzzling mates) that I have, much prefer Motueka over Saaz. There is no grassiness with Motueka whatsoever.

 

[Rocker1986]

I have a batch of pilsner in a keg with 50g Saaz added at flameout, fermented with 13th or 14th generation 2001 Urquell lager yeast, and I couldn't taste any grassiness in it at FG or at kegging time. It tasted bloody good in all honesty. There were no hops added to the cube though. It's been sitting in the keg for about a month now and will be on tap soon. If it's still tasting excellent then, I will probably keep that addition.. I don't see much point in dispensing with something that isn't causing me the problems it supposedly should be causing, and has from early tastings only improved the beer.

I have another one in the fermenter now although I haven't tasted it yet.. no grassiness in the aroma from an SG sample I took yesterday though. This one is being fermented with 2000 Budvar lager yeast, 1st generation.

 

[Haciluku]

There is no grassiness with Motueka whatsoever.

Did another brew last week, using Motueka and Riwaka cube hopping. Haven't fermented yet. Hope it is ok.

You were warned about grassiness from late hopping lagers. Yes, it will fade but may take some time.

Yes, you are right, not your fault. I just wanted to try myself, and will stay away from Saaz cube hopping in the future.

 

[fungrel]

Did another brew last week, using Motueka and Riwaka cube hopping. Haven't fermented yet. Hope it is ok.



Yes, you are right, not your fault. I just wanted to try myself, and will stay away from Saaz cube hopping in the future.

Adding flowers in the boil vessel as i drain to the cube is what i do,

The hops only stay in contact with the wort long enough for the boil vessel to drain. I get flavour but no grassiness, similar flavour profile to a macro Euro lager.

 

[Haciluku]

The hops only stay in contact with the wort long enough for the boil vessel to drain. I get flavour but no grassiness, similar flavour profile to a macro Euro lager.

This is what I will do in the next brew.

 

[Lionman]

WWhen you cube hopped did you pour the trub from the cube into the fermenter?

I always filter the wort through a hop spider between the cube and fermenter, never had any grassy notes to any of my beers. Cube hop all of them.

 

[Haciluku]

I did. I put the hops in the cube, and then fill it with wort.
I might be one of the reasons.

 

[Lionman]

If you have the wort in the cube for a few days and then in the FV for 2 weeks or so, the hop matter will be in contact with the wort for an extended period.

You might be able to get away with this with an ale that might be a bit more rough around the edges but with a lager, any hoppy vege flavours might come through more as the flavours are a little more delicate and there is less bitterness to hide behind.

I would try and get nice clean wort into the FV to get the best chance of getting nice clean flavours. You can use a hop spider or stockings or a hop or grain bag to filter the wort. Some people even bag the cube additions a hop bag and add them to the cube before filling the cube with hot wort. I like to filter the lot though to keep as much of the crap from the bottom of the cube out of the FV as possible.

 

[Haciluku]

The last brew, I have the hops in the cube and in FV through the process. Didn't filter it. It was my first cube hop lager.

So from now on, my last addition will be at zero. Then, I will whirlpool and drain to cube so all the hops will be at the kettle. No more hops in cube until I found something more subtle.

 

[technobabble66]

As lionman suggests, I'd filter out the hops when you transfer from cube to FV. It should greatly reduce grassiness that could be coming from extended contact with the hops debris.
Fwiw, I've got 2 cubes about to become lagers: 1 with tett in the cube and the other with tett + saaz in the cube.
The first was pitched with S-189 (after straining out the hops (& malts - I cube malted these 2 also! [emoji57])) 2 days ago. Down to 1.028 (@18*c), no grassiness as yet (though far too early to tell, really).
I'll try to remember to report back once it's finished and after its carbed up.

 

[Rocker1986]

I'm totally using my hop spider to filter the wort into the FV on my next batch, such a simple idea that never sprang to mind. Some hops are more susceptible to leaving grassy tones in the beer if left in contact with either the wort or the beer for too long and Saaz is well known for it. As I said I can't pick it up from the flameout addition I experimented with but I wouldn't cube hop with Saaz even if it was being filtered out, mainly because the cubes often sit around for weeks before I ferment them.

 

[Lionman]

Hop spider works well, although if there's a bunch of hops it can clog up and drain pretty slowly. I have found rubbing a big plastic sanitised spoon on the inside wall of the spider helps move debris from the edge and allow wort to flow through.

Just pitched a big choc stout and the cocoa was nasty at clogging up the spider.

 

[Rocker1986]

How does it go with cold break and keeping that out? I don't cube hop at the moment although it's in the pipeline to try it, in pale ales at least.

Sorry, taking this a bit O/T :lol:

 

[Haciluku]

No more cube hop for lager like what Rocker said, because my cubes normally sits for weeks before I ferment them. Flame out will be my last addition just to play safe.
I have a NZ pilsner cube hopped with Riwaka and Motueka which has been sitting there for three weeks. Don't have a hop spider but will use panty hoses to strain it into FV. Will report back in a few weeks.

 

[technobabble66]

I just use a regular kitchen strainer/sieve (sanitized) to filter out the hops. Easy peesy!

Fwiw, cold break into the FV isn't a big deal - apparently it doesn't really cause problems and can be good food for the yeasties (more important that it forms in the first place, once formed it generally will drop out again if it goes into the FV. It's the hot break you reeeeally want to keep out of the FV).

 

[Rocker1986]

Yeah I'm not overly concerned with cold break getting into the FV although when the sludge starts coming out of the cube I let it run for about a second then stop pouring. I'll try the hop spider next batch even though it has no cube hops, just to see how much of the cold break if any, gets caught in it. Hot break I do my best to leave in the urn as much as possible though.

 

[Lindsay Dive]

This is what I do if using hop cones. If I only have pellets I use a hop sock.

I use a small piece of a stainless scrubber and roll it up into a cylinder and push that inside of a normal fermenter tap which I have on all my kettles. This filters out most of the hops and cold break material from the kettle as I run it into a fermenter.
I then place this fermenter on a board on top of the open chest freezer and leave it sit there for about ½ hour for all of the cold break and any other material to settle on the bottom of the fermenter, I then run off the very clear wort and drop it from a height of about ½ a metre into another fermenter. This aerates the wort, and once the break material begins to enter the tap. I stop the runoff and pour it back into the kettle. I find that the left over hop cones/flowers make a fantastic filter and you can then run off extremely clear wort.

I know this sounds a little fiddly but I do like real clear wort.