Timothy Taylor Landlord Ale

[KoNG]

hmmm, bummer about the infection.. did you pinpoint the source.?
i think i will add a little crystal, but as you said majority will be golden promise.
During some more research today i ended up on BeerAdvocate, locating someone who said he lives for "TTLPA" and hopes it will be his last ever beer and it wil be served at his funeral.!! My point is, that a guy of such devotion starts his review of the beer as.... "A classic english Pale ale.. made from Saaz hops"

hmmmm, maybe thats what you were missing GMK.

Does this guy know something we dont..?

 

[GMK]

the hops i used were from Research...

No mention of Saaz - but styrian, fuggles anfd ekg.

 

[neonmeate]

i made a landlord clone a couple of years ago that was VERY close in a side by side comparison (and i would tell you if it wasn't) - here it is

http://www.beertools.com/html/recipe.php?view=4059

I personally find it hard to believe that this beer is 100% golden promise (even though that's what the evidence points to) - fawcett's golden promise is quite pale - perhaps they get the malt kilned to their own specifications.
in any case i taste a bit of toffee in the beer that could be done either by crystal malt or wort caramelisation. 250g crystal seemed to get it just right for me.

and TREAT YOUR WATER! english pale ales taste crap with soft water. chuck some gypsum in.

 

[Sean]

i made a landlord clone a couple of years ago that was VERY close in a side by side comparison (and i would tell you if it wasn't) - here it is

http://www.beertools.com/html/recipe.php?view=4059

I personally find it hard to believe that this beer is 100% golden promise (even though that's what the evidence points to) - fawcett's golden promise is quite pale - perhaps they get the malt kilned to their own specifications.

Possibly, or (more likely, IMO) a very vigorous boil

Also, don't forget the possibilitity that Taylors add a small amount of caramel to make the colour consistant - their dark beers (Ram Tam and Dark Mild) are coloured entirely with caramel (Landlord and Golden Best with added caramel respectively).

and TREAT YOUR WATER! english pale ales taste crap with soft water. chuck some gypsum in.

[post="107387"][/post]​

Yep.

To get spot on I'd suspect you'd need Taylors yeast, or at least a very similar Yorkshire yeast, and an extremely vigourous secondary fermentation (sucrose driven, IIRC). The level of secondary fermentation in cask of Taylors cask beers is massively higher than any other brewery I know, and I would imagine that they put the bottled beers through something similar in conditioning tanks to get it as close as they can to the cask beers.

 

[ausdb]

I promised Stuster that I would post some info about the TTLLPA that I had recently made so here it is. The recipe was worked out based on a bit of googling and the discussion here.

Basically its all golden promise the LME was only to make up for undershooting my gravity a bit. The colour in a standup comparison is a bit lighter, the boil was for 90 mins and I did try and caramelise some of the 1st runnings but didn't reduce it down very much. Next time I will get a small pot and really boil about a litrte of two down to a syrup if I can.

I am amazed at the depth of flavour which one malt can provide

The styrian goldings are a strange hop samples from the fermenter and for the 1st month really had me wondering if it was going to be any good or not and I kept subjecting poor old GL to random taste testings but for his troubles gave him 1/2 a keg of it! Next time I think the IBU's could be jacked up slightly or my hops may have been a bit old as it was not quite as bitter as the real thing.

I have the Beer Captured recipe but based on this one I will not be bothering with the specialty malts but next time I will split the batch and 1028 for 1/2 as a comparison with 1968. The only refrences I have found regarding TT's yeast is that it is proprietary and a "Yorkshire" strain.

Cheers

Ausdb :beer:

Brewing Date: Thursday March 16, 2006
Head Brewer: Ausdb
Asst Brewer:
Recipe: Timothy Taylor Landlord vers 1.0

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 29.00 Wort Size (L): 29.00
Total Grain (Kg): 6.04
Anticipated OG: 1.047 Plato: 11.62
Anticipated EBC: 9.4
Anticipated IBU: 33.5
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Actual OG: 1.046 Plato: 11.44
Actual FG: 1.012 Plato: 3.07

Alc by Weight: 3.49 by Volume: 4.47 From Measured Gravities.
ADF: 73.2 RDF 60.9 Apparent & Real Degree of Fermentation.

Actual Mash System Efficiency: 65 %
Anticipated Points From Mash: 42.79
Actual Points From Mash: 39.97


Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 10.00 Percent Per Hour

Raw Pre-Boil Amounts - only targeted volume/gravity and evaporation
rate taken into account:

Pre-Boil Wort Size: 34.12 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.040 SG 9.93 Plato

With sparge water, mash water, additional infusions, vessel losses, top-up
water and evaporation rate recorded in the Water Needed Calculator:

Water Needed Pre-Boil Wort Size: 40.01 L
Water Needed Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.034 SG 8.51 Plato


Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
95.0 5.74 kg. TF Golden Promise Pale Ale Ma UK 1.037 6
5.0 0.30 kg. Muntons DME - Light England 1.046 10

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
23.20 g. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 4.75 13.3 80 min.
32.48 g. Fuggle WCB Plug 4.80 17.5 80 min.
18.98 g. Styrian Goldings Plug 3.80 2.0 15 min.
8.83 g. Goldings - E.K. WCB Plug 4.20 0.6 5 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1968 London Extra Special Bitter

 

[Stuster]

Thanks for the info ausdb. Good to hear how this recipe went. More hops then. I'd also read that the hops were fuggles for bittering, ekg for flavour and styrian goldings for aroma. (From a Michael Jackson article)

It's getting a bit cold for ales here at the mo, so that brew will have to wait till Spring. Looking forward to trying. Cheers.

 

[Guest Lurker]

I kept subjecting poor old GL to random taste testings but for his troubles gave him 1/2 a keg of it! Next time I think the IBU's could be jacked up slightly or my hops may have been a bit old as it was not quite as bitter as the real thing.

That half keg is currently on the fifth "Guest Beer" tap in my bar, and it is a truly excellent beer. It would be even better if I had my real ale setup built. We did a taste test against the real thing but at a bbq after a large number of beers and all I can remember is that it was VERY close in flavour but a bit lighter in colour. I have another real TTL in the fridge for a more considered tasting at some point. But its interesting to note that
-near the end of fermentation, by the time AusDB had grabbed a sample and brought it over it was tasting of diacetyl, so it was left on the yeast longer
-once finished fermentation, it was tasting "odd" . Very dry, bit overhopped for the malt, and the Styrian Goldings had added a strong spicy/perfumy/vanillary aroma that dominated
-after a few weeks in the keg, the edge has dropped off the hops, the malt flavour is more prominent, the aroma has reduced to a hint of spice, and it is a really well balanced incredibly drinkable beer.

In fact, I think I better go grab a pint now while it is at its best.

 

[ausdb]

In fact, I think I better go grab a pint now while it is at its best.

[post="128309"][/post]​

GL I might need a litre for the next wcb comp! I managed to freeze my serving fridge for a week whilst I was in Sydney and its not tasting quite as good now its thawed out again

 

[Guest Lurker]

In fact, I think I better go grab a pint now while it is at its best.

[post="128309"][/post]​

GL I might need a litre for the next wcb comp! I managed to freeze my serving fridge for a week whilst I was in Sydney and its not tasting quite as good now its thawed out again

[post="128318"][/post]​

Now, now, I have already taken a bottle from that keg for that comp, cant have you being a copycat and submitting the same beer can we?

 

[Boots]

sorry to go slightly off topic on you, but I've arranged the Royal Oak in O-Connell Street Nth Adelaide to order in a case or two of the Landlord. Should be in in the next week or two if any adelaidians want to try the real thing.

 

[GMK]

let us know the price Boots - i will be for a couple.

Could do a bulk buy and get a carton between all of us.

 

[ausdb]

Now, now, I have already taken a bottle from that keg for that comp, cant have you being a copycat and submitting the same beer can we?

[post="128328"][/post]​

Ok you can ghost enter it for me as long as you are prepared to split 50/50 if it places anywhere

 

[Boots]

Tell you what Ken, when I start volunteering you for stuff, you can volunteer me for stuff <_< . Deal?

 

[Ross]

Very dry, bit overhopped for the malt, and the Styrian Goldings had added a strong spicy/perfumy/vanillary aroma that dominated
-after a few weeks in the keg, the edge has dropped off the hops, the malt flavour is more prominent, the aroma has reduced to a hint of spice, and it is a really well balanced incredibly drinkable beer.

[post="128309"][/post]​

What Styrians did you use - Slo or NZ?

I've recently made a landlord clone, with NZ Styrian flowers, this certainly started with a vanilla overtone which was out of character to landlord (bloody nice though), which has now faded away leaving a hint of spice as you describe - tasting awesome now. must pop out & buy a bottle of Landlord for a comparison.

cheers Ross

 

[ausdb]

What Styrians did you use - Slo or NZ?

I've recently made a landlord clone, with NZ Styrian flowers, this certainly started with a vanilla overtone which was out of character to landlord (bloody nice though), which has now faded away leaving a hint of spice as you describe - tasting awesome now. must pop out & buy a bottle of Landlord for a comparison.

Slovenian plugs and at 15 mins only, I wonder how long it will take to mellow if I use them at the end of boil. What was your hopping schedule Ross?

 

[Mr Bond]

To get spot on I'd suspect you'd need Taylors yeast, or at least a very similar Yorkshire yeast, and an extremely vigourous secondary fermentation (sucrose driven, IIRC). The level of secondary fermentation in cask of Taylors cask beers is massively higher than any other brewery I know, and I would imagine that they put the bottled beers through something similar in conditioning tanks to get it as close as they can to the cask beers.

The secondary fermentation that Sean mentions here has me intrigued.
I was under the impression that secondary in a cask was for carbonation purposes,so the ale could be hand pumped.In essence priming and bottle conditioning are a secondary fermentation.

So what Sean is saying that after primary you would rack the beer into another fermenter that has been primed with sucrose and allow the beer to fire up again consume the sugars,as well (I'm guessing)as chewing on some more malt sugars for a better attenuation.

would you then rack to a tertiary for clearing or bottle straight from secondary.?

What would be the advantages/outcomes of doing this as opposed to including the sucrose in primary and omitting a secondary.?

Any one got any info?

 

[Ross]

The Timothy Taylor site takes you through their process step by step. The beer is fermented for 7 days than kegged & put in the cellar for a further 7 days maturating "A slow secondary fermentation of residual or added sugars gives beer it's 'condition.'" After this Isinglass finings & priming sugar are added "the traditional way to give zest & condition to sparkling beers"
according to their flow chart, the bottled beer doesn't go through the same maturation stage as the cask beer, it is racked to a tank where it is filtered & conditioned before being bottled.

cheers Ross

 

[Sean]

The Timothy Taylor site takes you through their process step by step. The beer is fermented for 7 days than kegged & put in the cellar for a further 7 days maturating "A slow secondary fermentation of residual or added sugars gives beer it's 'condition.'" After this Isinglass finings & priming sugar are added "the traditional way to give zest & condition to sparkling beers"
according to their flow chart, the bottled beer doesn't go through the same maturation stage as the cask beer, it is racked to a tank where it is filtered & conditioned before being bottled.

cheers Ross

As Ross implied, my comments apply primarily to the original Cask version of Landlord. One can only guess at what secondary fermentation the bottled version goes through - I don't know anyone with inside information on Taylors who's been particularly interested in finding out about their bottled beers, which (although decent) lack the character and finesse of their cask beers.

 

[Mr Bond]

Thanks for the link Ross.

And thankyou Sean for taking the time to reply :beer:

Interesting to note that the flow chart shows Sugar on it to the right @ the boil stage.

 

[chillamacgilla73]

Currently at the tail end of a 3.5 week holiday in the UK - main reason for visit is my brother in laws wedding. I have been getting stuck into the real ales on a daily basis at many good pubs - some of which Kook recommended( :beer: ). I had tried TTLS before leaving from a bottle and I cannot emphasize enough the massive increase in hop flavour and aroma that a freshly pulled pint displays(Commonsense really I guess but it is all new to me). The wedding was a very lavish affair with a cask each of TTLS and Oldershaw Breweries Regal Blonde [http://www.oldershawbrewery.com/blonde.htm ]. Pic attached of the first pint of TTLS being poured by the father of the bride....excuse the head, I did mention first pint...The freshness of the hop flavour was outstanding and luckily there were only 8-9 guests(Of 130) on the TTLS. Sweet.

The anticlimax of getting home will be soon replaced by the joy of my first AG brew being a TTLS and bottling a german pilsener that has been lagering for two months.

Anyone brewed the previously posted recipes? If so, any comments or recommendations for a partial masher about to metamorphosize into an AGer?
Cheers
Chilla
:beer: