the point of secondary ?

[wereprawn]

After looking through a lot of forums/articles/blogs on the need for secondary fermentation ,or, the pointlessness of secondary. I am still a bit confused. Brewers claim leaving the brew on the yeast cake for a couple of weeks/months will ensure the yeast reabsorbs off flavours and secondary is not needed.
Others claim racking to secondary improves the beer significantly.
Here is the confusing part . If yeast absorbs off flavours why not simply bottle as soon as fermentation is over and there is still a heap of yeast suspended in the beer?(I don't mind if I stir a bit of yeast when pouring).I only brew ales atm as I can't achieve lagering temps without more gear.
Bottled one secondary conditioned for 8 days(first time using secondary) 2 days ago and have 1 more in secondary atm.
I understand that autolysis is not a problem with fresh , modern yeasts.

thoughts anyone ?

 

[BobtheBrewer]

After looking through a lot of forums/articles/blogs on the need for secondary fermentation ,or, the pointlessness of secondary. I am still a bit confused. Brewers claim leaving the brew on the yeast cake for a couple of weeks/months will ensure the yeast reabsorbs off flavours and secondary is not needed.
Others claim racking to secondary improves the beer significantly.
Here is the confusing part . If yeast absorbs off flavours why not simply bottle as soon as fermentation is over and there is still a heap of yeast suspended in the beer?(I don't mind if I stir a bit of yeast when pouring).I only brew ales atm as I can't achieve lagering temps without more gear.
Bottled one secondary conditioned for 8 days(first time using secondary) 2 days ago and have 1 more in secondary atm.
I understand that autolysis is not a problem with fresh , modern yeasts.

thoughts anyone ?

Sorry, can't help you with the technical stuff like reabsorbing off flavours. I don't rack to secondary, probably because I am paranoid about infection. I figure that every time you open your fermenter you are inviting the nasties in. I leave my temperature controlled brews for at least 7 days, check the SG and if it is OK I cold crash for around five days, then into the keg/bottles. I use glad wrap in lieu of a lid and airlock and don't have to open the fermenter to take a sample, you can see if the krausen has been and gone. Works for me, hope it is of some help to you.

 

[Spiesy]

When beer is left on the yeast for long periods it can develop a fault called "autolysis", i.e. burnt rubber vibes... not something you'd want in your beer.

The fear of autolysis was more prevalent years ago, nowadays many HB'ers claim that you really need to leave beer on the yeast for months on end, and at warmer temps in order to exhibit autolysis.

Still, preventing autolysis, and further enabling the yeast to drop out (resulting in a clearer beer) are two of the common reasons brewers chose to use secondary.

 

[bum]

Here is the confusing part . If yeast absorbs off flavours why not simply bottle as soon as fermentation is over and there is still a heap of yeast suspended in the beer?

Received wisdom indicates that it works better with larger volumes. Really, we're talking about a matter of days required for this clean-up by this yeast to occur. Let it do it's job, then bottle. Better flavours, marginally better clarity (if that's important to you).

 

[mondestrunken]

Received wisdom indicates that it works better with larger volumes. Really, we're talking about a matter of days required for this clean-up by this yeast to occur. Let it do it's job, then bottle. Better flavours, marginally better clarity (if that's important to you).

Do you mean an extra couple of days primary or secondary?

 

[bum]

It seemed like the context of the part I quoted was about skipping secondary/expended primary completely, so I was referring to primary. Secondary would still probably do a better job than bottling right away too. We're probably talking about fairly subtle differences though. Everyone should do it how they choose as long as that choice is informed.

 

[mondestrunken]

Yes I normally leave in primary for 2 weeks or so because I'm too busy lazy. I've rarely done secondary except for the few high gravity brews I've done.

 

[wereprawn]

Yeah bum. That's the idea. Making an informed choice is usually better than a blind one. I will leave the next in primary for an extra week for comparison.

 

[wereprawn]

Mondestruken. Why for high gravity ?
Do's anyone have any science for or against leaving the beer on the yeast or racking. I am trying both but still want to know what other people think as the homebrew community up here is virtually non-existent . Just curiosity.

 

[ctagz]

I too would like to know why rack it for higher gravity? or more specifically higher abv

thanks

 

[brente1982]

Read this well informed piece

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter8.html

Will hopefully answer all the questions you have.

 

[Yob]

My last high grav beer produced a shed load of trub, combined with the dry hop additions I gave it, the beer was in danger of blocking the tap, racked it to secondary for this reason. Secondary is just that, a process required for a specific reason not something that is done 'because'. There are a few reasons for doing secondary, not having a valid one lends itself to not doing it.

 

[Adr_0]

I can understand peoples' hesitation to add another transfer and the infection risks associated with this. While that has a big dependence on your processes, admittedly anytime you do this does add risk. I transfer with the lid on and basically coat the airlock in Starsan gel, or alternatively have the grommet coated in gel and put a spoon (concave side up) resting on the airlock. A bit of a balance of preventing drawing a vacuum and minimising dragging in dust or pathogens in the air.

The transfer is just done from the bottom of the primary into the bottom of the secondary - which has a bit of Starsan foam in it of course. No issues.

I try to do it 'with a few points left'. My reasoning for that is that I want to bring some yeast over into secondary but not the trub/proteins or early-floccing yeast. Primary fermentation is generally pretty quick but the beer as a whole seems to finish strongly this way (with a few points left in secondary), and still has a reasonable yeast cake in the secondary to harvest (just use a 2-3 jar wash method). You can start a conversation of yeast floccing/attenuation in the primary vs the secondary (presumably the secondary stuff is slightly less flocculant and higher attenuating) if you want.

I think it's just come from major breweries and their need to manage their beer vs crap that isn't beer. There is definitely less crap carry-over into your bottles - I'm talking crap on the bottom of the bottle, not necessarily clear/hazy/cloudy beer - and you could probably argue that the yeast you do include is slightly (miniscule-ley) lower floccing and (micro-minisculelelye) higher attenuating than the mix in your primary... so you don't normally miss out on carbonation yeasties.

 

[wereprawn]

Thanks All,
brente1982, your link answered a lot of my questions. And your method makes sense to me also Adr_0. WHY? Has always in my nature. So it has been thoroughly enlightening to read the opinions/experiences of others. Now I can get to sleep at night without obsessing over the relatively minor issue of beer.(Even though it takes up a disproportionate amount of my life)

Cheers.

 

[CosmicBertie]

I transfer to secondary so that I can add gelatine (finings) to help clear it up.

 

[Wolfman]

I transfer all my beer to secondary. Why? Because I think it helps the maturation process, frees up a fermenter and allows me to use the yeast slurry for another beer. I only transfer once fermentation is complete or at the very least almost complete. If the beer has a few points to go I add some of the slurry to the secondary. I do all this with brewing a number one rule "sanitation". If you ensure that your secondary container is clean and sanitized you will have no problems. It's no different to cleaning a primary container.

I see it as if the big boys do it why shouldn't I.

 

[thedragon]

I racked to secondary on a number of occasions, without significant improvements being noted. Now I crash chill in the primary and have noted a clearer beer.

The results from the secondary experiment on better brewing radio identified limited benefits.

But each to their own. If it works for you, keep it up.

May 24, 2012 - Secondary Experiment Results
James and Chris Colby, editor of Brew Your Own magazine, take a look at the results of the BYO-BBR Collaborative Experiment testing the effect of racking to a secondary fermenter.

 

[Black n Tan]

I used to do it because I was under the impression I would get clearer beer. Now I add whirlfloc to the primary and cold crash for 2 days before kegging and the beer is crystal clear.