The No-chill Cube Informal Water Taste/smell Test

[PostModern]

I wonder if your liver/kidneys feel the same way

Sorry POMO, i just couldnt help myself. Someone has to play the devils advocate, even if the tongue is planting firmly in the cheek. :lol:

I'm a bit slow. You'll have to explain the organs reference for me.

Good on you trevc for doing this experiment. I might repeat it with one of my old faithfuls, but I really doubt I'd spend the time.

 

[rich_lamb]

a couple years isnt long, it takes decades for most cancers to appear......

If that's the case I'm home free, coz I'll probably be dead by then anyway :huh:

But at least I've learned to "condition" my cubes before I use them, even if it's only a secondary thing. I bought the cubes to make life simpler - and I aint gonna start worrying now.

I'm guessing what you could possibly get out of these cubes is minute compared to your total daily intake of poisons, but that does sound like cheap rationalisation. Bravo the scientists. Well done trevc.

 

[geoffi]

Will you please stop baiting me with dodgy pseudo science....

Well, according to my homeopath, the levels of toxins absorbed into the beer from the cubes is actually far too HIGH to cause problems...

 

[drsmurto]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[geoffi]

I feel this is going down the path of other 'no chill' threads.

I can say one thing for sure: there is a very dangerous substance implicated in thousands of deaths every year that is found in beer whether brewed by the chill or no-chill methods...

It's called alcohol.

 

[drsmurto]

The difference between this and other NC threads is that i am adding a liberal dose of emoticons so ppl know i am not being overly serious. Nothing wrong with a bit of debate as long as it doesnt get personal.

NC challenged the long held ideas about brewing, as did BIAB and no doubt there are countless other examples i have missed. The fact they exist is due to someone asking questions, pushing the boundaries... doing research

All i am doing is adding my voice to the debate.

 

[benno1973]

Awesome test Trev. Certainly makes you think about what you let your beer touch.

Anyway, i did like the test Trevc. Maybe you need to do it again with a larger number of tasters. Am particularly interested to hear that your missus could taste a difference and not you. Are you a smoker? Does she have a bun in the oven? These are but a few factors that influence peoples tastes.

Yeh, when my wife was pregnant she used to do all the taste testing for me. She doesn't drink beer normally, but good god those taste buds were on fire! She could identify every flaw or fruity overtone in my beer. Not that there were any flaws...

 

[trevc]

In my reading about treating water for brewing the Brita water is different. De-ionized or something.

I thought it was simple carbon filtration, at least with the stand-alone jug style models (which is what I used). Perhaps someone here knows a bit more about this.

At the very least I'd like to find out what had leached in to the water to make it taste so stale/plastic-y. The test cube had still been subjected to a lot of cleaning with hot water, sanitising, one no-chill session, then further cleaning/sanitising before this test.

Who's going to test this with an old cube, and packed full of boiling h2o? Thirsty mentioned his old ones do not taint the water. If we can confirm this, that would settle the issue.

I know it's a pain in the ass to investigate further when the beer comes out fine, but I think we should be more confident in exactly what these plastics are contributing (especially since they see the highest temperature exposure for the longest duration out of any brew-gear). Even the plastic esky tuns only see <80C for a under an hour.

 

[trevc]

Anyway, i did like the test Trevc. Maybe you need to do it again with a larger number of tasters. Am particularly interested to hear that your missus could taste a difference and not you. Are you a smoker? Does she have a bun in the oven? These are but a few factors that influence peoples tastes.

Thanks. I hope it adds to the information out there. I don't believe it's conclusive yet, we need more people to do similar tests. This is a standard-issue cube, but still only one of many.

I don't smoke, and neither of us has a bun in the oven...

I agree that a larger testing group would be better. However, the cube water tasted quite nasty. I'm confident in saying even people that are fairly oblivious to these things would still pick it as the "bad one", at the very least!

 

[barry2]

No answers at this website but a view on "Plastic Water Pipes Affect Odor And Taste Of Drinking Water"

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/...70823141100.htm

 

[PostModern]

No answers at this website but a view on "Plastic Water Pipes Affect Odor And Taste Of Drinking Water"

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/...70823141100.htm

I have no doubt that they do. A friend moved into a new house with plastic pipes and I couldn't drink tap water at his place. A few years on it was good enough to drink straight. I wonder if my used over and over cubes will be the same?

As interested as I am in all this peer reviewed research, I think I might take a page from Ray Mills' book and just do what works.

 

[PostModern]

I'm not sure what material the cube is made of, but there's an arrow pointing to "10" on the bottom. It looks like HDPE, if I had to guess.

Actually, one thing... in my review of this experiment... if the container does not have a number inside the recycling triangle, we have no idea what the container is made of. The arrow pointing to 10 is a manufacturing date marker, not a plastic typing marker. So this result of this experiment is for "plastic of unknown origin".

 

[Julez]

I thought it was simple carbon filtration, at least with the stand-alone jug style models (which is what I used). Perhaps someone here knows a bit more about this.

I think this is something to investigate further. I'm sure the filtration of the water has something to do with it. Every morning before work, I fill up my "plastic of unknown origin" water bottle with filtered water. I use a carbon-based filter too and it's one that is flushed daily. By lunch time, it starts tasting totally rank and I have to tip out what I haven't consumed. However, a few weeks back, I bought some bottled water from a servo. I transfered some to my plastic bottle and left it there for a day - it still tasted fine!

Hmmm, I think I'm going to experiment further with this myself...perhaps some tinkering with mineral salts is in order...

 

[trevc]

PoMo, you're absolutely right. I just did a whole bunch of calling around to track down where this cube was from, and what it was made of.

The cube was imported by Primus Australia (sold at Anaconda), and is moulded from LDPE (Low Density Poly-Ethylene).

From Wikipedia's LDPE article:

LDPE is defined by a density range of 0.910 - 0.940 g/cm. It is unreactive at room temperatures, except by strong oxidizing agents, and some solvents cause swelling. It can withstand temperatures of 80 C continuously and 95 C for a short time.

 

[trevc]

Just did more calling around (as I somehow doubted these were LDPE, they're too sturdy). They're actually HDPE, and the same 25L type as carried by Aussie Disposals too.

High Density Polyethylene is also somewhat harder and more opaque and it can withstand rather higher temperatures (120 Celsius for short periods, 110 Celsius continuously)

From here

 

[PostModern]

I'll try it with one the cubes I use, most of which are ex-NNL wort packs... can't guarantee when, but one day

 

[trevc]

Great.

It was surprising what the various manufacturers/suppliers would say, some just made stuff up. One guy insisted they were Nylon. I finally got a hold of someone with a bit more knowledge, and they were positive the ones at Anaconda and Aussie Disposals were HDPE.