That Hand Pump Mouthfeel

[Kai]

I should also add that from time to time I have allowed a batch of beer to condition slightly in secondary / the cube, pressurising it and rendering it delicious straight from the old plastic tap. There have been batches that have failed to make it to packaging. I consider this to be 'real ale'.

 

[CosmicBertie]

Collapsible plastic container: Nodrog you are obviously familiar with the Polypin word, they are widely available in NZ and the UK but for some reason have not made it to these far deserted shores. The BCF ones sound excellent although a bit expensive per brew. I wonder if they are cleanable, which would make them reusable. I'd guess a good method might to be to lightly carb in a cornie in a kegerator, then run into the Polypin for serving and keep it at a low temperature for longer life.

These are the ones I use:

Http://m.bcf.com.au/Product/Collapsible-Wa...20-Litre/114174

Sorry for the crap link, iPad and all that. $13 each, but they are cleanable, I've used nappysan on mine, and totally reusable. The tap unscrews and theres about a two inch hole to clean it out with. I reckon if you treat them right, they'll last a bit, but a bit of misuse and the plastic fatigues.

I keep these full in my fridge, at a low temp, around 2C, so I can crash chill in it too. I take it out and leave it to warm up for an hour or so before serving.

 

[CosmicBertie]

That souns really interesting, cask ale with no oxidising problems,

Do you,rack direct from primary,to the polyp in or via secondary?

I guess there,s o priming sugar involved?

I treat all my beers the same. Ferment in primary, transfer into secondary whilst adding gelatine, then crash chill for 7 days.

The English ales go straight from secondary into the collapsed water carrier to reduce oxidisation. No priming sugar added. They're then left for anywhere between 30 secs to 2 weeks to mature. Obviously the longer the maturation time, the better the beer is.

I'm planning on making an English beer soon, I'll take some pictures if it helps.

 

[Wolfy]

Some cheaper Polypin's on Ebay:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/300725889205?ss...984.m1423.l2649
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/261043809445?ss...984.m1423.l2649
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/160822850240?ss...984.m1423.l2649

A number of home brewers on the UK-based JBK forums use them, to both condition (usually by filling them just before fermentation has finished) and serve the beer (via gravity), there are pictures/details on those forums. Interestingly they seem to be more popular than the water-pump (BYO article linked earlier) method of replicating real ale serving. I'm not sure it's because it is a better or easier method, or because the water-pump-taps are more readily available in the USA.

 

[Nodrog]

I treat all my beers the same. Ferment in primary, transfer into secondary whilst adding gelatine, then crash chill for 7 days.

The English ales go straight from secondary into the collapsed water carrier to reduce oxidisation. No priming sugar added. They're then left for anywhere between 30 secs to 2 weeks to mature. Obviously the longer the maturation time, the better the beer is.

I'm planning on making an English beer soon, I'll take some pictures if it helps.

That would be great, good to see.
I expected a small amount of priming sugar and venting any Co2 produced would be good to displace any oxygen in the container, but it seems its not necessary.

Do you use a pump like the BYO one linked on page 1?
Or just open the tap into the drinking vessel of choice? - simple is good!

i'm thinking I may try a plastic tube extension (like a bottling wand) to the tap, with a sparkler on the end, and use gravity, or even squashing the water container to pour initially, if its working well I'll source a hand pump.

I guess the carrier has to be kept very still to avoid disturbing sediment, although guess yours are clear after gelatine and 2ndary?

 

[Nodrog]

Collapsible plastic container: Nodrog you are obviously familiar with the Polypin word, they are widely available in NZ and the UK but for some reason have not made it to these far deserted shores. The BCF ones sound excellent although a bit expensive per brew. I wonder if they are cleanable, which would make them reusable. I'd guess a good method might to be to lightly carb in a cornie in a kegerator, then run into the Polypin for serving and keep it at a low temperature for longer life.

i've only ever seen them in camping stores / BCF etc, not seen any breweries selling them yet in NZ, although the more experienced ale heads / brewers would still refer to me as grasshopper.

 

[CosmicBertie]

That would be great, good to see.
I expected a small amount of priming sugar and venting any Co2 produced would be good to displace any oxygen in the container, but it seems its not necessary.

Do you use a pump like the BYO one linked on page 1?
Or just open the tap into the drinking vessel of choice? - simple is good!

i'm thinking I may try a plastic tube extension (like a bottling wand) to the tap, with a sparkler on the end, and use gravity, or even squashing the water container to pour initially, if its working well I'll source a hand pump.

I guess the carrier has to be kept very still to avoid disturbing sediment, although guess yours are clear after gelatine and 2ndary?

I've found that making a 23l batch, and trying to squeeze it into a 20l container expels most of the air in it From experience, they'll hold about 22l

I keep my beer bags in the fridge, in the garage, the beer is pretty much clear (although being dark beers you tend not to notice) and then lug it into the house, and connect it to my beer engine. Its an original English pub beer engine The beer engine is connected to the outlet tap of the container via some 10mm OD tubing.

I dont think gravity would create the head that you're wanting, and squashing the container to force the beer through sparkler may cause the container to burst. When I'm pulling pints it does take a fair bit of force.

Unforunately, you've caught me between brews, what with a prolapsed disc and family commitments, i'm all out of English ale. I'll put one down this week though, and if I remember I'll take some photos, and video the whole 'pint pulling' experience

 

[Murcluf]

What gets me is how simple and blood obvious use of those caravan pump taps, I've been in the throws of wanting a beer engine for years but could never get over the cost of importing one. But now the obvious has been point out, I now know what my next project is..... Also thought to get either an aspirater (apologies for bad spelling) or leaving the valve open on the keg lid when hand pumping and once finished if there is any left just replace the headspace with CO2.

 

[Bribie G]

i've only ever seen them in camping stores / BCF etc, not seen any breweries selling them yet in NZ, although the more experienced ale heads / brewers would still refer to me as grasshopper.

A couple of pubs in Welly were using them when I was there, the Malthouse was serving a porter on handpump and you could clearly see the PP under the bar, and also the Hashigo Zake on Taranaki St had two on pump. Also Twisted Hop at Beervana were doing this with their Goldings Bitter. The breweries don't sell to the public AFAIK, they have obviously twigged to it as a viable method of delivering real ales in manageable quantities to pubs that don't have the traditional English Cellar to hold the casks, I would guess.

**************************

Edit: using cornies another possible option would be to run off say three or four pints directly into another concealed food grade container under the bar (beer line, inline tap, plus any lidded container - Woolies decor fake tupperware thingo etc) and put the dip tube of the caravan pump into the beer and pump away, sir . This would also give the beer time to "steam off" excess gas.

 

[dmac80]

A bit off topic, but how good was Hashigo Zake Bribie? Wish that was my local, that place is awesome.

Back on topic, i think i'm off to pull the redundant water pump out of the caravan for a cheap hand pump. Probably use a corny with another reg to supply around atmospheric pressure to the keg and a one way valve on the gas line in. When the pump draws beer out, it should create a slight vacuum and draw co2 in to the keg headspace.

Not quite 'real ale' but as close as i'll get i think.

 

[gap]

Wylam Brewery in North East UK
http://wylambrewery.co.uk/pdf/flierweb.pdf

they sell beer in a box (10L or 20L) to attach to a handpump or with a tap attached
Nice thought

regards

Graeme

 

[super_simian]

Ok, are cask aspirators kludge-able, or will I need to buy one? I'm thinking of finishing off my stalled sprayer party keg and adding a caravan handpump; but the 'cask' will be rigid and I won't drink it all in 2 days. Could a BBQ reg and sodastream bottle work?

 

[Nodrog]

A couple of pubs in Welly were using them when I was there, the Malthouse was serving a porter on handpump and you could clearly see the PP under the bar, and also the Hashigo Zake on Taranaki St had two on pump. Also Twisted Hop at Beervana were doing this with their Goldings Bitter. The breweries don't sell to the public AFAIK, they have obviously twigged to it as a viable method of delivering real ales in manageable quantities to pubs that don't have the traditional English Cellar to hold the casks, I would guess.

All hail Hashingo Zake !! what a place.

Not quite so spoilt for choice in Akld but there's a couple of places with hand pumps where I'll ask. Pretty sure they get through enough volume to be able to do casks properly though.

What is the world coming to, first BIAB then "real" ale in a polythene sack delivered with a caravan pump!! :lol:
Bring it on I say.

 

[Bribie G]

Re a previous post of mine, in the 1970s the beers from the Hull Brewery in Yorkshire were delivered to the pubs in flogging great polypins, about firkin sized. Firkin big anyway.
Then they were put in a sealed airtight SS tank. At the bar was a handpump, but what it did was to send a pulse of compressed air down the line back to the sealed container a bit like a tyre pump.

This would displace an equal amount of beer back to the spigot. Bloody ingenious, no wonder we won the Falklands War I tells yer.

CAMRA hated the system with a passion, yet at the same time endorsed the Scottish Water Fonts that were another similar system working on water pressure where pulling a lever released mains water under pressure somehow in the system, to send a pint to the bar. NFI how they worked but they were developed in Victorian times as part of a "health and hygeine in serving" idea. I had a few pints of Macleays 80/- back in the 70s and a real as you can get. I might email Shut Up about Barclay Perkins and see if he has any further info.

 

[Lecterfan]

I wasn't going to bother commenting, but I have had a lot of hand pump ales as I am fortunate enough to know a few guys who have them around these parts. While there is no true substitute, I bottle carbonate (and in the 9L kegs I have) with around 1.5gms raw sugar per litre for these types of beers. Pour the beer with a splash into the glass, baby syringe, give it two or three good squirts, creamy head and the mouthfeel is somewhere in the vicinity (like a shetland pony is closer to a horse than a mastiff, regardless of superficial similarities).

I find that the beers out of the kegs with a bronco tap poured from a height have a closer approximation even without the squirting procedure. But please don't squirt beers that have been carbonated beyond approx 1 volume. It saves a lot of cleaning up.

Not perfect, not 'the' answer, but a cheap and easy option, especially for those who only bottle.

This is from the AHB google search.

:icon_cheers:

 

[Wolfy]

My sister has asked me to make beer for her wedding, her fiance is from England, and the first choices of the beer he'd like me to emulate were Banks Mild and/or Bitter.
I'm hopeful that a 40L esky, 20L polypin and the caravan hand-pump - just purchased ($22 Ebay or $26-30 in-store) will solve the logistics of getting the beer to Tasmania as well as serving it in a resonable way.

I think he's from Birmingham, so should I look to include a sparkler or not?

 

[black_labb]

For a rough estimate of cask ale through a sparkler bottle condition with low carbonation and use a measurement syringe. Draw the beer into the syringeand push it back down to the base of the glass. I read someone here refering to it as a pocket sparkler.

 

[freek]

Has anyone tried fitting a sparkler to a tap on a standard force carbonated set up? I am wondering if this is an easy way to achieve the result.
I see small plastic sparkler units for sale on Ebay UK. They do not say what they are intended to be used with. I assume it is for handpumps.
example here

 

[Wolfy]

I see small plastic sparkler units for sale on Ebay UK. They do not say what they are intended to be used with. I assume it is for handpumps.
example here

Yes they are for hand pumps, and are attached via a fine thread (the vendor did not know what size the thread is) - I asked recently.

 

[mwd]

Has anyone tried fitting a sparkler to a tap on a standard force carbonated set up? I am wondering if this is an easy way to achieve the result.
I see small plastic sparkler units for sale on Ebay UK. They do not say what they are intended to be used with. I assume it is for handpumps.
example here

I was thinking Whoh that is expensive even though there is six they are only plastic.
I reckon they are designed for a beer engine.