ferretlegs
Member
- Joined
- 2/11/10
- Messages
- 20
- Reaction score
- 7
Hi everyone, haven't been much of a poster over the years but I am a big lurker and generally keep up with the daily threads. I am also a high throughput brewer and usually do 60L AG batches every 2 - 3 weeks or so consistently for the last 6 years.
Over the years I have read many threads and comments with tips, tricks and best practices from some of the very experienced brewers here and obviously try to adopt them where I can to improve my beer. I have to be honest though and say that in order to get the most efficient brew day that I have not gone the extra mile to get what might be a better beer. I would like to quickly describe what I tend to make and how I make it and get some honest feedback about what I might be missing out on by doing it this way.
I generally like to make very simple but (hopefully) quality lagers with 59L batches in a standard 60L old school plastic fermenter. I have a dedicated fridge for good temperature control and 2 x deep freezers that hold 6 kegs each (with temp control to maintain lager temperatures). One of the deep freezers has a gas bottle and lines setup so that kegs are naturally carbonated at serving pressure until they are ready to be moved to the kegerator. From time of moving from fermenter to keg, and through rotation of the two deep freezers to kegerator, the kegs usually are tapped in about 10 to 12 weeks, ie, that is the length of the pipeline end to end. I do not do any filtering, it is just natural settling, and then pouring out about 4 pots to clear any sediment etc. All of my beers seem well carbonated, have a good head, are clear and I do not detect any off flavours so I think my general process is pretty good and consistent. I've never had an infection thank goodness (touch wood!)
My equipment is 1 x small grainfather (35L?) and a fermzilla same size. I basically run both machines at the same time side by side with same recipe on brewday and combine contents into the larger fermenter. I use a concentrated recipe so that even though I only get around 52L wort, I can topup with about 7L water to get my final batch size of 59L. All water filtered to remove chlorine.
In terms of recipe, I usually do something along the lines of 5kg of base malt (either Wey Pils, MO or BB pale ale, or perhaps half/half of two of these), plus some medium crystal to golden up the colour. All of this is multiplied by 2 as I am running 2 machines. For hops I generally bitter to around 24 or 25 IBU, with the 60 min addition being around 22 IBU of that and a 30min addition for the remainder. I use all sorts but I generally come back to saaz, hellartau or cascade, with perhaps some mittlefruh as the flavor component. I generally use 34/70 yeast which I harvest and reuse about 8 to 10 times before starting with another 3 x dry packets into the wort. Sometimes I use slightly less malt and small amount of table sugar (say 300gm x 2 ) with IBU to about 22 if I want to go for a commercial type clone.
Now to the shortcuts where I wonder what the impact of not these doing these things:
1. No mash in or out, just a straight single infusion around 66c, and only for 60 mins. This saves quite a bit of time but I wonder if that 90 min mash in the recipe would make much difference for example. As a side question, because I run two machines I've wondered if I should mash one at say 63c and the other at 69c to get the best of both worlds considering the result will be combined into the same fermenter. Any thoughts?
2. 60 min boil only - same as above, does a recipe calling for a 90 min or greater boil really make much difference? Obviously saves time.
3. I use counterflow chiller from GF to cool the wort to around 23 / 24c when it goes into the fermenter. I know early temp control is very important for lager, but I still pitch the yeast at that temp while the fridge cools the wort down. This obviously saves time and there are logistical reasons (car blocks fridge in garage). It usually takes the fridge about 5 or so hours to get that temp down to 16 or 17 so I wonder if in that time how much damage is really done. I usually ferment at 14c for about a week and then bring up to 19c over a few days, then hold for another couple of days before bringing temp down to 1.5c for about another week before kegging. This early temp issue is what I probably worry about the most.
4. No dry hopping. I know I am paranoid but once the fermenter is sealed I minimise its contact with air basically until its in my glass. Kegs are co2 purged before kegging, long transfer line etc. Am I really missing out on much?
5. No liquid yeast or starters. As I mentioned, I do reuse my yeast, but when its time for a new lot, its always 3 x packets of the standard size 34/70. I use 34/70 as I want a very neutral yeast and clean tasting beer, I've used s23 before and didnt find that much difference but I think 34/70 is slightly cleaner. Does the liquid yeasts make all that much difference?
6. No filtering. As I said its all just natural settling but I wonder if it really would make much difference. To me it seems like twice the gas, twice the keg cleaning and lots of stuffing around when I can just pour half a jug out the day before I want to start drinking it.
All up I have the whole process down to a 6hr timeframe from getting out equipment to putting it all away on brewday. It used to take me all day until I got the process to the point that I am almost always doing something the whole time. It really runs like a well oiled machine and I think the beer I make is pretty reasonable and its certainly very consistent, but I always wonder how much I am missing out on by not doing these extra things. Is it a case of the 80/20 rule where if I am at 80% it will be alot more work to try to improve further?
Thanks to everyone who took the time to read and / or comment.
Over the years I have read many threads and comments with tips, tricks and best practices from some of the very experienced brewers here and obviously try to adopt them where I can to improve my beer. I have to be honest though and say that in order to get the most efficient brew day that I have not gone the extra mile to get what might be a better beer. I would like to quickly describe what I tend to make and how I make it and get some honest feedback about what I might be missing out on by doing it this way.
I generally like to make very simple but (hopefully) quality lagers with 59L batches in a standard 60L old school plastic fermenter. I have a dedicated fridge for good temperature control and 2 x deep freezers that hold 6 kegs each (with temp control to maintain lager temperatures). One of the deep freezers has a gas bottle and lines setup so that kegs are naturally carbonated at serving pressure until they are ready to be moved to the kegerator. From time of moving from fermenter to keg, and through rotation of the two deep freezers to kegerator, the kegs usually are tapped in about 10 to 12 weeks, ie, that is the length of the pipeline end to end. I do not do any filtering, it is just natural settling, and then pouring out about 4 pots to clear any sediment etc. All of my beers seem well carbonated, have a good head, are clear and I do not detect any off flavours so I think my general process is pretty good and consistent. I've never had an infection thank goodness (touch wood!)
My equipment is 1 x small grainfather (35L?) and a fermzilla same size. I basically run both machines at the same time side by side with same recipe on brewday and combine contents into the larger fermenter. I use a concentrated recipe so that even though I only get around 52L wort, I can topup with about 7L water to get my final batch size of 59L. All water filtered to remove chlorine.
In terms of recipe, I usually do something along the lines of 5kg of base malt (either Wey Pils, MO or BB pale ale, or perhaps half/half of two of these), plus some medium crystal to golden up the colour. All of this is multiplied by 2 as I am running 2 machines. For hops I generally bitter to around 24 or 25 IBU, with the 60 min addition being around 22 IBU of that and a 30min addition for the remainder. I use all sorts but I generally come back to saaz, hellartau or cascade, with perhaps some mittlefruh as the flavor component. I generally use 34/70 yeast which I harvest and reuse about 8 to 10 times before starting with another 3 x dry packets into the wort. Sometimes I use slightly less malt and small amount of table sugar (say 300gm x 2 ) with IBU to about 22 if I want to go for a commercial type clone.
Now to the shortcuts where I wonder what the impact of not these doing these things:
1. No mash in or out, just a straight single infusion around 66c, and only for 60 mins. This saves quite a bit of time but I wonder if that 90 min mash in the recipe would make much difference for example. As a side question, because I run two machines I've wondered if I should mash one at say 63c and the other at 69c to get the best of both worlds considering the result will be combined into the same fermenter. Any thoughts?
2. 60 min boil only - same as above, does a recipe calling for a 90 min or greater boil really make much difference? Obviously saves time.
3. I use counterflow chiller from GF to cool the wort to around 23 / 24c when it goes into the fermenter. I know early temp control is very important for lager, but I still pitch the yeast at that temp while the fridge cools the wort down. This obviously saves time and there are logistical reasons (car blocks fridge in garage). It usually takes the fridge about 5 or so hours to get that temp down to 16 or 17 so I wonder if in that time how much damage is really done. I usually ferment at 14c for about a week and then bring up to 19c over a few days, then hold for another couple of days before bringing temp down to 1.5c for about another week before kegging. This early temp issue is what I probably worry about the most.
4. No dry hopping. I know I am paranoid but once the fermenter is sealed I minimise its contact with air basically until its in my glass. Kegs are co2 purged before kegging, long transfer line etc. Am I really missing out on much?
5. No liquid yeast or starters. As I mentioned, I do reuse my yeast, but when its time for a new lot, its always 3 x packets of the standard size 34/70. I use 34/70 as I want a very neutral yeast and clean tasting beer, I've used s23 before and didnt find that much difference but I think 34/70 is slightly cleaner. Does the liquid yeasts make all that much difference?
6. No filtering. As I said its all just natural settling but I wonder if it really would make much difference. To me it seems like twice the gas, twice the keg cleaning and lots of stuffing around when I can just pour half a jug out the day before I want to start drinking it.
All up I have the whole process down to a 6hr timeframe from getting out equipment to putting it all away on brewday. It used to take me all day until I got the process to the point that I am almost always doing something the whole time. It really runs like a well oiled machine and I think the beer I make is pretty reasonable and its certainly very consistent, but I always wonder how much I am missing out on by not doing these extra things. Is it a case of the 80/20 rule where if I am at 80% it will be alot more work to try to improve further?
Thanks to everyone who took the time to read and / or comment.
