Sugar

[joebejeckel]

Does white sugar and raw sugar produce a different taste when making a simple kit beer, like a tooheys lager or coopers draught?

joe

 

[Aus_Rider_22]

Does white sugar and raw sugar produce a different taste when making a simple kit beer, like a tooheys lager or coopers draught?

joe

Not 100% sure but I think raw sugar can give a cidery taste if used in a decent quantity. The other more experienced guys should be able to answer this more thoroughly! :icon_cheers:

 

[jbowers]

I beleive white sugar in too high quantities gives cider-like flavours. No idea about raw sugar. Generally accepted that for a clean tasting beer, you want to use dextrose rather than table sugar.

 

[joebejeckel]

Ok, I've read in here that sugar will dry a beer out and i've been malting my beers so heavily thinking that more is better, some are so intense they are not session-able,

 

[Aus_Rider_22]

Ok, I've read in here that sugar will dry a beer out and i've been malting my beers so heavily thinking that more is better, some are so intense they are not session-able,

That's what I am discovering. The maltier beers are fuller in body and seem to hold their head really well. I am using a fair bit more dextrose in a recent brew to make it a drier and easier drinking beer for sessions in this warm weather. Rather than using sugar from the cupboard I would recommend using dextrose from your LHBS. :icon_cheers: :icon_cheers:

 

[dr K]

Nip in Bud time again.
The sugar = cidery thing is incorrect, it was based on oberservation and an incorrect conclusion.
It arose in the early days when the quality of the kits was questionable (esp. in US) and they were often old, as were the supplied very basic yeasts, so with old slightly oxidised malt extract, old yeast and very low FAN levels in the kits not to mention fermenting at elevated temperatures you were doomed to failure, but sucrose got the blame, more people started brewing, procedures got better, kits were better and fresher, yeast quality improved and people started moving to malt extract and dextrose (encouraged by LHBS), beers got better but sugar got the blame (a kilo of homebrand white from the local supermarket is far cheaper than a kilo of dextrose from the LHBS).
The cider taste came from a combination of everything even without the sugar.
Will you get a better beer with malt extract than sugar, no doubt..yes, but it will be maltier.
Will you get a better beer with dextrose than sugar, if you underpitch with poor quality yeast then probably, if you do everything right then probably not.
I would recommend to any new KKK brewer that they use some of the wonderfull sugar (whether its sucrose or glucose) and malt mixtures available, experiment to you find one that suits your dry vs malty tastes.

K

 

[Aus_Rider_22]

Nip in Bud time again.
The sugar = cidery thing is incorrect, it was based on oberservation and an incorrect conclusion.
It arose in the early days when the quality of the kits was questionable (esp. in US) and they were often old, as were the supplied very basic yeasts, so with old slightly oxidised malt extract, old yeast and very low FAN levels in the kits not to mention fermenting at elevated temperatures you were doomed to failure, but sucrose got the blame, more people started brewing, procedures got better, kits were better and fresher, yeast quality improved and people started moving to malt extract and dextrose (encouraged by LHBS), beers got better but sugar got the blame (a kilo of homebrand white from the local supermarket is far cheaper than a kilo of dextrose from the LHBS).
The cider taste came from a combination of everything even without the sugar.
Will you get a better beer with malt extract than sugar, no doubt..yes, but it will be maltier.
Will you get a better beer with dextrose than sugar, if you underpitch with poor quality yeast then probably, if you do everything right then probably not.
I would recommend to any new KKK brewer that they use some of the wonderfull sugar (whether its sucrose or glucose) and malt mixtures available, experiment to you find one that suits your dry vs malty tastes.

K

Very informative dr K. Something I didn't know and happily proved wrong. :unsure:

 

[phinnsfotos]

I've often thought about just doing a Coopers Real Ale, kilo of white sugar and kit yeast just to see what a $10 beer (16 cents a stubby) would be like.

Hmmmm, $2 to fall over.

 

[Brewman_]

I've often thought about just doing a Coopers Real Ale, kilo of white sugar and kit yeast just to see what a $10 beer (16 cents a stubby) would be like.

Hmmmm, $2 to fall over.

I know someone who does exactly this and has done for a few years. He brews at ambient temps and conditions for 3 to 4 months. I tried some of his beer with a Tooheys drinker. The comment from the Tooheys drinker was that it was one of the best Home Brews he has had, but I doubt he has had many. But what he was saying is that it was drinkable and he quite liked it. I must say it was better than I expected. I did not expect much. It was definitely not bad - granted he was also serving off ice so it was also very cold, but hey, on a hot day it was OK.

Fear_n_Loath

 

[Brewman_]

Nip in Bud time again.
The sugar = cidery thing is incorrect, it was based on oberservation and an incorrect conclusion.
It arose in the early days when the quality of the kits was questionable (esp. in US) and they were often old, as were the supplied very basic yeasts, so with old slightly oxidised malt extract, old yeast and very low FAN

Hi Dr K,
It seems to take a long time to break perceptions.

When you say the early days, what are you referring to 15 years ago 20 or earlier? My first recollection of Home brew kits was Coopers kits in about 1987 in K-Mart, but I don't remember seeing anything else aound back then. The kits then were just the white label ones, and I think they have not changed - in label.

Fear_n_Loath

 

[mborja]

It's just easier to blame sucrose for cidery flavors, rather than to gain better control over all other variables. It is hard to screw up a brew that contains all top shelf ingredients, but I have used sugar, and given the right conditions, has worked out fine for me in the past. My only cidery batches I had, didn't sit and condition long enough, and/or also didn't have adequate yeast. Cheers!

 

[Kevman]

So now we've cleared up the cider issue.

Is there any difference in the taste between using raw (brown) or white sugar?

 

[praxis178]

So now we've cleared up the cider issue.

Is there any difference in the taste between using raw (brown) or white sugar?

I noted a slightly "rummy" character when I used brown sugar once (was out of the others and well I figured sugar is sugar right? WRONG), so maybe a something similar from raw sugar, but I don't know.....

Try it and report back to us! :beer:

 

[Swinging Beef]

Slightly rummy, slightly caramel.
Probably a bad idea in an Aussie Pale Ale or Pilsner, but probably a good idea in a Stout or a belgian Dubbel.

"some are so intense they are not session-able"
I will put my flame suit on for this comment.
Try to make your kits up with a ratio of 2:1 malt:dex (or other simple sugar)
As aussies, we all were brought up on very dry and watery lagers, like VB, New and XXXX.
Even though you will be able to make tasty beers with all malt extract, you will find they have a bigger body, desirable to many, partikkarly the English Ale fans, but you may find them to "heavy". I know I do.

 

[Pete2501]

White sugar = sucrose
Brown sugar is sucrose + molasses.


http://www.greenlivingtips.com/articles/73...-raw-sugar.html

How raw sugar is made

Sugar cane is initially pressed and the juice is then mixed with lime to achieve the desired ph balance and to help settle out impurities. The resulting liquid is reduced through evaporation, then a centrifuge used to separate sugar crystals. It is then dried further to produce granules. The brown color of raw sugar is due to presence of molasses.

How white sugar is made

"White" sugar is created in a couple of ways.

Mill white sugar is the result of sulphur dioxide being introduced to the cane juice before evaporation. It effectively bleaches the mixture.

In the production of refined white sugar, which is the most common product in the Western world, the raw sugar syrup is mixed with a heavy syrup and run through a centrifuge again to take away the outer coating of the raw sugar crystals.

Phosphoric acid and calcium hydroxide are then added to the juice which then combine and absorb or trap impurities. Alternatively, carbon dioxide is used to achieve the same effect.

The resulting syrup is then filtered through a bed of activated carbon to remove molasses and then crystallized a number of times under vacuum. It is then further dried to produce white refined sugar like we buy in the store.

Brown sugar

Brown sugar is refined white sugar with a molasses syrup mixed in, then dried again.

And the reason you get a rummy taste.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum

Rum is a distilled beverage made from sugarcane by-products such as molasses and sugarcane juice by a process of fermentation and distillation. The distillate, a clear liquid, is then usually aged in oak and other barrels.

Edit: Added links.