Style Of The Week 16/01/2008 - Tripel/golden Strong

[black_labb]

Just opened the first bottle of my tripel just 3 weeks after bottling (I really wanted to wait atleast 1.5 months, but i am only human.
In terms of looks it is quite clear and has a nicel golden colour. There is carbonation but the head doesnt last. I dont know if I should expect it to improve much as it finished at 1009 and is around 9.5%, but at the moment it doesnt last very well.
First impressions was that it tastes very similar to the belgian pale that I fermented using the same chimay yeast. The next few sips presented a bit of spicy phenols and a bit of stone fruit flavour.
As i let it warm up towards room temp you start to get a bit of a hot alcohol taste.

I'll wait another few weeks before I open the next one. I think this should be a pretty good tripel once aged for a bit, though I'm a bit concerned that the head retention may be a bit lacking, though thats not a big issue for a first attempt.

Recipe is posted a few posts above

 

[hoohaaman]

Don't forget 3-4 weeks of lagering,the colder the better,improves head foam layer and really rounds out the flavours in your golden strongs.

In my experience 1388 or whitelab alternative is the only way to fly with this beast.I have extensively used both 1214 and 1388 and would never try 1214 to replicate a golden strong,but thats just my personal tatses.

Both styles use very simple grain bills with temperature and yeast setting them apart.There is complexity to the Tripel that stands it apart to the moreish lager character of a golden strong.I think the problem most brewers have with tripel/golden strongs is they over complicate the grain bill,instead of letting yeast and temperature shine.

Try a side by side with a Duvel and Westmalle Tripel,I think they are more then subtly different.

Just my 2c.

 

[black_labb]

Don't forget 3-4 weeks of lagering,the colder the better,improves head foam layer and really rounds out the flavours in your golden strongs.

In my experience 1388 or whitelab alternative is the only way to fly with this beast.I have extensively used both 1214 and 1388 and would never try 1214 to replicate a golden strong,but thats just my personal tatses.

Both styles use very simple grain bills with temperature and yeast setting them apart.There is complexity to the Tripel that stands it apart to the moreish lager character of a golden strong.I think the problem most brewers have with tripel/golden strongs is they over complicate the grain bill,instead of letting yeast and temperature shine.

Try a side by side with a Duvel and Westmalle Tripel,I think they are more then subtly different.

Just my 2c.

I went back and poured a second glass and the head magically appeared. I've noticed that often when a beer hasnt been refrigerated for long the first pour doesnt produce much head at all, but the second one will. I dont understand why as its been opened and some co2 has excaped. I put it back into the fridge so its not a temp change either.

I'm more confident about it now.

I dont have the facilities for lagering at the moment as I dont have enough room. Long cellar time should do the same thing as lagering but take longer.

Regarding the yeast I find that the phenols are pretty well in balance with this beer. the belgian pale I did has a bit much of the phenols, though that may mellow. I pitched a fair starter and stepped up the volume so the yeast shouldnt have been too stressed. it was fermented around 18* until I turned the heat belt on towards the end.
Thanks for the tips

 

[cubbie]

Is a bag of sugar sanitary enough to add directly to the fermenter or should it be boiled with a small amount of water. Normally I would boil, however at the moment I am living and brewing in one place and fermenting in another (due to reno's). I go past my house daily to check the reno's and the fermenter and today I would like to add some sugar, if not I will go home boil some sugar and drop past the house on the way to work tomorrow. My preference is the former, but what is the likelihood the sugar will carry some contaminants?

Dam builders turned the power off yesterday so my triple got a little warmer than what I wanted on day 3 of the ferment.

 

[raven19]

Sugar is very stable in its store bought form - iirc the dogfish ipa podcast on the Brewing Network discussed sugar and is it ok to pitch 'as is'. The consensus was it is fine, as sugar in your/my kitchen cupboard lasts forever with no issues.

My current Tripels are fine and sampling well after adding the multiple 200gm additions to the fermentor poured straight in.

 

[raven19]

Sampling my Belgian Tripel. This is the batch fermented with 1318 Belgian Strong Ale yeast.



Minimal head that dissipates quickly, but a good peppery, spicy, alcoholic warmth, with some faint orange aroma.

1072 OG down to 1011, 8.1% alc abv.

 

[raven19]

And the recipe:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 24.00 L
Boil Size: 36.84 L
Estimated OG: 1.073 SG
Estimated Color: 13.0 EBC
Estimated IBU: 22.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 56.00 %
Boil Time: 120 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.00 kg Pilsner (5.9 EBC) Grain 86.96 %
21.00 gm Saaz [3.60 %] (120 min) (First WortHops 8.4 IBU
36.00 gm Saaz [4.30 %] (60 min) Hops 14.4 IBU
0.50 tsp DAP (Diammonium phosphate) (Boil 15.0 min)Misc
0.50 items Whirlfloc (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.80 kg Sugar, Table (Sucrose) - split and add durSugar 8.70 %
0.40 kg Sugar, Table (Sucrose) - boil (2.0 EBC) Sugar 4.35 %
1 Pkgs 1388 Belgian Strong Ale (Wyeast #1388) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Raven's RIMS
Total Grain Weight: 8.00 kg
----------------------------
Raven's RIMS
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
10 min Protein Rest Add 24.00 L of water at 59.1 C 55.0 C
40 min Mash 1 Heat to 62.5 C over 15 min 62.5 C
10 min Mash Out Add 0.00 L of water at 78.0 C 78.0 C


Notes:
------
xx.11.10 Brewed & Cubed - only used 400gms sugar in boil (15 Brix OG = 1060, Aim was for 1065)
14.12.10 Prepare yeast starters
21.12.10 Split batch, 12L into 2 fermentors, OG 15 Brix - yeasts 3522 & 1388 (Split batch into halfs. One with Belgian Strong 1388 (2yr old smack pack), One 3522 stepped up from slant). Fridge set to 20.
27.12.10 Add 200gms sugar to each half batch and increased temp to 21.5 deg.
04.11.11 Add further 200gms sugar (100 white, 100 raw) to each half batch and swirl fermentors.
10.01.11 Bottled 1388 Batch.
2.7vols = 7gms/L, 0.5 tsp sugar

 

[mika]

.....
In my experience 1388 or whitelab alternative is the only way to fly with this beast.I have extensively used both 1214 and 1388 and would never try 1214 to replicate a golden strong,but thats just my personal tatses.
.....

Please explain ?
Not done a heap of Belgains, but have been very happy with the way 1214 performs/tastes in the 'darker' styles. Why not for a Golden strong or similar ?

 

[winkle]

Its about time to brew a trippel of two, now I've curently got a dubbel doing its second stage ferment using W1762 (which is preforming to specs nicely). I'm considering using it instead of W3522 in the next trippel.
Anyone given it a go in a trippel?

 

[raven19]

Winkle, I split my tripel over 1388 & 3522, however the 3522 was stepped up from a slant and ended up picking up a slight infection, to the beers detriment. Initial tastings before the off flavours took hold were promising. I should have pushed the temps higher also, but was worried about excessive esters (my Bier de Garde with 1388 was fermenting around 24 and it is nice already re esters imo).

 

[drtomc]

I've been very happy with the reviews from friends of the following tripel:

5.5kg wey pils
0.5kg wey wheat malt
1.0kg black glutinous rice
0.5kg quick oats
0.5kg rye (flour)
0.75kg sugar (during ferment)

40g Styrian Goldings (5.0%) @ 90min
40g Styrian Goldings (5.0%) @ 20min

Wyeast 3787

Unmalted grain boiled to mush, then when temp dropped to 70C, added 500g of the pils malt and wrapped up to mash for about 2 hours.

BIAB mash with a 30min rest at 55C, followed by 90min at 64C, then mashout at 78C.

OG 1.078, FG 1.007.

Will be doing this again soon.

T.

 

[neonmeate]

ooh that looks interesting

I've been very happy with the reviews from friends of the following tripel:

5.5kg wey pils
0.5kg wey wheat malt
1.0kg black glutinous rice
0.5kg quick oats
0.5kg rye (flour)
0.75kg sugar (during ferment)

40g Styrian Goldings (5.0%) @ 90min
40g Styrian Goldings (5.0%) @ 20min

Wyeast 3787

Unmalted grain boiled to mush, then when temp dropped to 70C, added 500g of the pils malt and wrapped up to mash for about 2 hours.

BIAB mash with a 30min rest at 55C, followed by 90min at 64C, then mashout at 78C.

OG 1.078, FG 1.007.

Will be doing this again soon.

T.

 

[black_labb]

Been considering brewing another tripel. I've brewed them twice and never got a really enjoyable one. The first was just too phenolic which I attribute to bad yeast health (recultured chimay yeast, I think I've learned a fair bit since then).

My second one doesn't have enough malt flavour and the yeast flavour isn't quite right. The yeast was 3463 forbidden fruit which is basically a wit yeast. It works well in a dubbel or dark strong where you get the fruityness from the malt but in a tripel you need to really get the full spectrum of flavours from the yeast as it doesn't come from anywhere else. I'm not sure what to attribute the lack of malt character to. I'm thinking I'll try some imported pilsener malt as I find local pils/pale ale malts can be less flavoursome than I would hope.

I've got some 3787 (westmalle yeast) on the go at the moment and I'm thinking about doing another tripel. It's not my favorite belgian style, but I want to nail a good one. The 3787 should be great for the yeast and I'll have a nice healthy yeast cake on the bottom of the belgian pale (1047 og) so I might as well do it now.



I'm looking for some advice on brewing a good tripel. My main issue is getting a good malt flavour out of the beer, something I've struggled with when it comes to my previous attempts irrespective of other issues. My system is going to limit me to an og of roughly 1065-1070 from the malt which should be fine as I'll add a bit of dextrose to get to 8-8.5%.


Currently I'm thinking
70% weyermann floor malted pilsener
20% marris otter
8% vienna
2% melanoiden

bittered to 34ibu with noble hops

Does the vienna and melanoiden seem like a bad idea? My reason for going this way is I want to make sure it has a good malt flavour there (I will do a mash that results in a dry beer). Is this too much of a knee jerk reaction?

 

[raven19]

Don't have beersmith on my work pc so going from memory here, but iirc, my tripels have comprised 100% base malt (maybe a 1-2% of spec malt for colour).

Mash temp?

I think I aimed for around 64-65.

I went for the mid to upper end of the yeast recommended ferment temp range too, push those belgian yeasties hard!

You could also go a smaller batch to get a higher OG.

 

[black_labb]

Thanks Raven, I ended up brewing a tripel instead of the dark strong I had planned because I was missing some things for the DS.

I decided to try and see how a protein rest went on my system and it all went arse over tits. Ended up figuring out that my malt pipe was blocked by the piece of material I had put over the grates. and got that eventually sorted out. In the meantime I adjusted the non flowing mash pipe up to saccrification temp using a kettle. The result was a normal protein rest and a very long time at 61-63*c and then another 25 towards the 68* mark, 20 at 72 and 20 at 77*c. I won't bother writing about the further issues as they're not quite bad enough to be funny but I've learnt alot more today about my new 1v recirculating brewing system than I have in the other 6 successful brews. Fortunately the brew system behaved exactly as it should considering what the erratic operator was throwing at it.


Below is the recipe, I didn't include the erratic mash schedule with the almost decoction and silly games I played trying to fix the problems I caused fixing other problems I caused. I expect this to turn out one of my best beers and never be able to replicate the madness that went into it. I haven't tested the OG but it should be fairly accurate.


Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 23.0
Total Grain (kg): 6.300
Total Hops (g): 72.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.065 (P): 15.9
Final Gravity (FG): 1.009 (P): 2.3
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 7.32 %
Colour (SRM): 5.6 (EBC): 11.0
Bitterness (IBU): 32.6 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 76
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
4.500 kg Pilsner (71.43%)
1.300 kg Maris Otter Malt (20.63%)
0.350 kg Vienna (5.56%)
0.150 kg Melanoidin (2.38%)

Hop Bill
----------------
42.0 g Spalt Pellet (5.7% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (1.8 g/L)
15.0 g Spalt Pellet (5.7% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)
15.0 g Styrian Golding Pellet (3.4% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)

Will be adding some dextrose to it mid ferment, though I'm only aiming for about 8-8.5%. A beer like this is drinkable enough as is if done right, no need to kill ones tastebuds once you really start to enjoy it

 

[raven19]

Below is the recipe, I didn't include the erratic mash schedule with the almost decoction and silly games I played trying to fix the problems I caused fixing other problems I caused. I expect this to turn out one of my best beers and never be able to replicate the madness that went into it. ...

They often are when things go pear shaped!

Noticing now, I did not even think to scroll up the page, as my last tripel recipe was only a few posts above. Blonde moment here.

I have another tripel fermenting on wlp550 yeast cake atm.

 

[Adr_0]

Don't forget 3-4 weeks of lagering,the colder the better,improves head foam layer and really rounds out the flavours in your golden strongs.

In my experience 1388 or whitelab alternative is the only way to fly with this beast.I have extensively used both 1214 and 1388 and would never try 1214 to replicate a golden strong,but thats just my personal tatses.

Both styles use very simple grain bills with temperature and yeast setting them apart.There is complexity to the Tripel that stands it apart to the moreish lager character of a golden strong.I think the problem most brewers have with tripel/golden strongs is they over complicate the grain bill,instead of letting yeast and temperature shine.

Try a side by side with a Duvel and Westmalle Tripel,I think they are more then subtly different.

Just my 2c.

That's the impression I get too: phenolic yeast fermented cool for a trippel, estery yeast fermented slightly warmer for a golden ale. Gut feel would say a fairly low mash temp for a golden, but I would be hesistant to push mash temp too high for a trippel.

It's been a while, but I had a Chimay Blanc last night. Having gone through a couple of Duvels recently, the difference in mouthfeel is very clear I feel but the esters, phenols and hops are not backed up by the BJCP guidelines or what people tend to say: i.e. golden ale = dry and fruity; trippel = spicy and phenolic with a heavier mouthfeel.

From the Chimay Blanc, the hopping is what would call subtle, the mouthfeel is definitely heavier and while it's not particuarly fruity, I would say it balances towards esters (bubblegum, bread, banana) rather than phenols. This seems to be contrary to what I read.

I guess Chimay Blanc is really a stick in the mud for the style guidelines?