Style Of The Week 13/9/06 - Weizen

[Stuster]

This week we're off to Germany for the traditional wheat beer, weizen/weissbier, style 15A on the BJCP style guidelines.

With summer just about to appear (hopefully), this style is a perfect refreshing beer for the warmer weather. Here are some links - General discussion on kits , some great AG info here, the Brewing Network discuss weizens download here (just for hmm aaaahhh Warren). (Any other links would be good. )

So what is your take? Grain bill, hops, yeast strain (important for this style), ferment temps etc. There are lots of kits for this style but what are your favourites and how do you jazz them up? Which are the best commercial weizens? Tell us all you know about this style so we can all drink better beer. :super:

15A. Weizen/Weissbier

Aroma: Moderate to strong phenols (usually clove) and fruity esters (usually banana). The balance and intensity of the phenol and ester components can vary but the best examples are reasonably balanced and fairly prominent. Noble hop character ranges from low to none. A light to moderate wheat aroma (which might be perceived as bready or grainy) may be present but other malt characteristics should not. No diacetyl or DMS. Optional, but acceptable, aromatics can include a light, citrusy tartness, a light to moderate vanilla character, and/or a low bubblegum aroma. None of these optional characteristics should be high or dominant, but often can add to the complexity and balance.

Appearance: Pale straw to very dark gold in color (rarely, can be as dark as amber). A very thick, moussy, long-lasting white head is characteristic. The high protein content of wheat impairs clarity in an unfiltered beer, although the level of haze is somewhat variable. A beer "mit hefe" is also cloudy from suspended yeast sediment (which should be roused before drinking). The filtered Krystal version has no yeast and is brilliantly clear.

Flavor: Low to moderately strong banana and clove flavor. The balance and intensity of the phenol and ester components can vary but the best examples are reasonably balanced and fairly prominent. Optionally, a very light to moderate vanilla character and/or low bubblegum notes can accentuate the banana flavor, sweetness and roundness; neither should be dominant if present. The soft, somewhat bready or grainy flavor of wheat is complementary, as is a slightly sweet Pils malt character. Hop flavor is very low to none, and hop bitterness is very low to moderately low. A tart, citrusy character from yeast and high carbonation is often present. Well rounded, flavorful palate with a relatively dry finish. No diacetyl or DMS.

Mouthfeel: Medium-light to medium body; never heavy. Suspended yeast may increase the perception of body. The texture of wheat imparts the sensation of a fluffy, creamy fullness that may progress to a light, spritzy finish aided by high carbonation. Always effervescent.

Overall Impression: A pale, spicy, fruity, refreshing wheat-based ale.

History: A traditional wheat-based ale originating in Southern Germany that is a specialty for summer consumption, but generally produced year-round.

Comments: These are refreshing, fast-maturing beers that are lightly hopped and show a unique banana-and-clove yeast character. These beers often don't age well and are best enjoyed while young and fresh. The version "mit hefe" is served with yeast sediment stirred in; the krystal version is filtered for excellent clarity. Bottles with yeast are traditionally swirled or gently rolled prior to serving. The character of a krystal weizen is generally fruitier and less phenolic than that of the hefe-weizen.

Ingredients: By German law, at least 50% of the grist must be malted wheat, although some versions use up to 70%; the remainder is Pilsner malt. A traditional decoction mash gives the appropriate body without cloying sweetness. Weizen ale yeasts produce the typical spicy and fruity character, although extreme fermentation temperatures can affect the balance and produce off-flavors. A small amount of noble hops are used only for bitterness.
Vital Statistics:
OG FG IBUs SRM ABV
1.044 - 1.052 1.010 - 1.014 8 - 15 2 - 8 4.3 - 5.6%

Commercial Examples: Schneider Weisse Original (unusual in its amber color), Paulaner Hefe-Weizen, Hacker-Pschorr Weisse, Franziskaner Hefe-Weisse, Penn Weizen, Capitol Kloster Weizen, Sudwerk Hefeweizen, Brooklyner Weisse, Barrelhouse Hocking Hills HefeWeizen, Sprecher Hefeweizen

 

[tangent]

IMO it takes a great yeast to make a great Weizen. I wouldn't brew it without a 3333 or 3068. Fantastic tasting and smelling yeasts.

 

[Tony]

yeah i agree!

I have used the 3068 and the WLP300 which is the same i think and brewed at 20 deg its great.

I have taken to decoction mashing it as well to get the depth of colour and malt flavor the proper german oned seem to have

I like to use at least 60% wheat.

My fav is the dunkelweizen style though. all that munick richness mmmmmmmmm. Will be making my next one with weyermann dark wheat i think.

cheers

 

[Snow]

Yeast, yeast, yeast and yeast are the four most important ingredients in a weizen. Oh and wheat! A good weizen has a tangy taste that comes from the use of raw wheat in the grist. So, stuck sparges aside, I reckon up to 20% raw wheat in the grist is a good start.

And my favourite commercial weizen is Aventinus Doppel Weizenbock.

Cheers - Snow

edit: oh, and my favourite yeast for this style is Wyeast 3068!

 

[warrenlw63]

Timely thread Stuster! :lol:

I'm contemplating one in the next few weeks. Shall be reading this thread with vested interest. Haven't ever been able to nail the style properly myself.

Getting some good ideas re; underpitching and long lag times though.

Keep the ideas coming guys. Warren needs to make a decent Weizen. :lol:

Warren -

 

[Borret]

Snow.. I don't believe the German use any raw wheat in a weizen. It would be unpure. But I surpose as homebrewers who cares what they do :unsure:


I love a good weizen, the best IMHO being Schnieder Edel Weisse. Absolutely beautiful. Trouble being with a benchmark that high I have never been able to brew one I am totally happy with.

Here is another good article that explains the 30 deg rule too.

I will brew my ideal weizen one day, just fear the dissapoinment I may endure getting there. The starters always taste promising and then nothing from the ferment. I beleive my pitching rates have been too high in the past though. Must step outside the comfort zone once again.

Brent

 

[Duff]

Can't wait to read Weizguy's thoughts on this one

It's one I can never get right. I think I have it right with the hops, Mittlefruh at 60 minutes to about 17 - 18IBU, and the yeast WLP300, but for the next in a couple of weeks will try some unmalted wheat. Just can't seem to get the tartness right. Probably the best refreshing beer to have on tap at summer.

Franziskaner on tap is my fave :beerbang:

 

[Stuster]

A good weizen has a tangy taste that comes from the use of raw wheat in the grist. So, stuck sparges aside, I reckon up to 20% raw wheat in the grist is a good start.

Raw wheat? I thought that was in the Belgian wit style rather than this style. :unsure:

I've never cracked this style either, warren. Last one I did about a year ago had no head on the beer at all, rather odd for a wheat beer. Will different rest temps help with this? (it was a straight infusion.)

 

[bindi]

Just got back after four days away and found this topic.
Weizen, yes, I love a good Hefe Weizen and as tangent/snow and Tony said it's the right yeast, my first choice is 3333, I pitch at 22c then to 18c and raise to 24c over 4-5 days for that, to quiote Beersmith: "Fruity, ester, phenolics ok. Clove and banana yeast flavor dominent." Taste

I was going to say Yum but someone on here said that is so gay <_< , so it's great mate

 

[user 384]

Snow.. I don't believe the German use any raw wheat in a weizen. It would be unpure.

I agree that raw wheat is not used in a German wheat beer, but it has nothing to do with purity. The Beer Purity Law, Reinheitsgebot, was introduced in part to prevent the brewing of wheat beer. The idea was to stop competition between brewers and bakers for wheat and keep the price of bread affordable. The Reinheitsgebot lead to a number of German styles of beer disappearing and wheat beer only survived through a special decree that allowed first the royal family of the Degenbergers and later the Wittlesbachs alone to brew it. Royal control of the style was finally broken by Georg Schneider though his right to brew wheat beer was still a special exeption to the rule. Not until the passage of less strict standards in the 20th century was brewing wheat beer generally allowed.

Cheers
MAH

 

[tangent]

that's amazing!
thanks MAH

 

[Borret]

Snow.. I don't believe the German use any raw wheat in a weizen. It would be unpure.

I agree that raw wheat is not used in a German wheat beer, but it has nothing to do with purity. The Beer Purity Law, Reinheitsgebot, was introduced in part to prevent the brewing of wheat beer. The idea was to stop competition between brewers and bakers for wheat and keep the price of bread affordable. The Reinheitsgebot lead to a number of German styles of beer disappearing and wheat beer only survived through a special decree that allowed first the royal family of the Degenbergers and later the Wittlesbachs alone to brew it. Royal control of the style was finally broken by Georg Schneider though his right to brew wheat beer was still a special exeption to the rule. Not until the passage of less strict standards in the 20th century was brewing wheat beer generally allowed.

Cheers
MAH

I do not argue that point.

However.. in order to brew with only malt, hops, yeast and water..... ones grain must all be malted. That be a part of the purity law. Wheat is only allowed in top fermented beers too.

Brent

 

[Weizguy]

Lucky I had the day off work, and spotted this thread. I've been curious about what makes this kind of beer attractive, and why you weirdos go on and on and on about it. Doesn't appeal much to me. Has always been a bit freaky. Ha ha ha! :huh:

OK, serious now...Stop me if I'm PistolPatching this thread! :lol:

It was Redback wheat (the original recipe, I'd say) that got me interested in this style. Something different and interesting. Maybe it's just that it tasted better than New, VB or Red. It certainly was drinkable, but not quite affordable at night club prices, so I had to brew my own.

I started with some, or prob most of the wheat kits on the market at that time. First brew in my brew journal, but not the first I ever made, is a Goldrush wheat kit with dextrose. The big disappointment in wheat kit beer is the yeast - just a standard ale yeast.

I have added a wheatgerm steep in some of my earlier wheat beers, to get the right flavour, but really started to turn the corner with Wyeast W3056 Bavarian wheat blend in 1998. My belief is that it's called W3056 is coz it's a blend of W3068 and W1056. Whatever the origin of the name, I used it to brew my first extract weizen on 28/1/98 with a 750 ml starter which I prepared 3 days earlier. The first recipe was nice and used Willamette hops, whereas the second one used a noble hop (Saaz). Now I was getting somewhere.

As I had been reading about those American fruit wheat beers, I made one (misguidedly) using W3056 using a wheat kit, a blend of dried corn sugar and liquid and dry malt extracts and a jar of raspberry jam. Not bad, but would have been nicer with US56 yeast. I still have some of this, and I keep telling myself it's a yeast culture bank (from 15/3/98).

I started making weizens with DME (and numbering my weizen recipe batches)and found that I got closer to the flavours and colour that I wanted. Liquid malt just wasn't working for me.

The best weizen I ever made with a kit was a Muntons wheat, adding 500g liquid wheat malt extract and 500g Dex, and of course W3056.

I scored a second prize in 1999 at the now-defunct Newcastle Show Homebrew comp, and the bug bit me (I still have the newspaper result clippings, and the red ribbon, of course).

My house beer, until recently (only because I haven't been buying wheat DME) is 1.5kg Muntons wheat DME, 1 kg Muntons DME and 2 plugs of Czech Saaz. 22.5 litre batch. Pitch at ambient, up to 30C. I know it sounds to hot, but it has worked for me. OG is about 1040 and the ferment finishes in about 6-10 days. No racking. Just bottle with about 200g dextrose or 240g DME. Start drinking as soon as carbonated, maybe as soon as 2 days later. I have started making this beer with W3068 as well.

W3068, as the archetypal weizen yeast, unsurprisingly works well for making my weizens. It got a trial run in a weizen and a Dunkelweizen after I scored a free, out-of-date Wyeast pack in mid-2003. After ironing out a few bugs in my system (wild yeast) it has been my house weizen yeast since November 2004.

In my opinion, I'd say that I need to pitch at temp above 20C to get the banana I like. Pitch too cold and you'll only get phenolics, and that's not my fave aspect of this beer, although it helps to balance the flavours.
After some experience with the allegedly-tricky W3068, I'd recommend the W3056 as better for weizen neophytes. It seems to be much easier to get the right profile.

Might leave it there for the moment, but may come back and comment further, depending on where the thread conversation turns.

Oh, and I believe that wheat was much less available than barley in the early days in Germany. So the decree was that weizen was exclusive to the royal family, so there was always weizen available for them. Mmmmm, snob beer for a beer snob.

Beerz :beerbang:

Weizguy out

 

[warrenlw63]

Has anybody used Wyeast 3638? :unsure:

I know with 3068 I've had ordinary results thus far.

Warren -

 

[Mr Bond]

Good post seth!

Not much more to say really,its all been said.

Yeast really is the key.

Like Weizguy ,I too like the bananary characteristics to be at the fore.Fermenting @ 20c + seems to develop these characteristics more.
Warren it may be worth giving the 3333 a try,its my fave over the 3068 as its more bubblegum and banana.

I bitter mine to 20 IBU ,which is at the top end of guidelines as i prefer it that way(afetr all I'm brewing for me)
I always use one 60 min hop addition ,and have used,Ammarillo,Challenger,POR ,NZ hallertau,and most recently Chec Saaz.The euro hops are the difference though and should be first choice.Spalt and maybe some Home grown Tettnanger will make it into next years brews.
My last one finished 6 th from 9 entries with a 34.3 in the SAABSOSA comp last w/end and I'm yet to see and read the tasting notes but it would appear I still have a way to go until I'm up to guideline standaed anyway :unsure: .One thing I am sure of is its a tasty ale that is about 75% of the way to my perfect weizen.

Dave

 

[user 384]

However.. in order to brew with only malt, hops, yeast and water..... ones grain must all be malted. That be a part of the purity law. Wheat is only allowed in top fermented beers too.

Not exactly as simple as that. The original Reinheitsgebot, only allowed water, barley and hops, so even malted wheat was disallowed. This changed over time to allow yeast and other malted grains. Nor is it a German law, it's really a Bavarian law. It was first introduced in 1516, but only covered all of Germany from 1871, however under the separation of East and West Germany, the Eastern Germans didn't strictly folow it. And the Reinheitsgebot is no longer part of German law and has been replaced with the Provisional German Beer Law.

What does all this mean, simply that the exclusion of raw wheat in wheat beer is not due to purity or the Reinheitsgebot, it's simply that the style never really used it. They made wheat beer without raw wheat before the Reinheitsgebot, they also made wheat beer without raw wheat in German areas that were not under the control of the Reinheitsgebot and they continue to make wheat beer without raw wheat even though the Reinheitsgebot is no longer part of German law, therefore you can't attribute it's exclusion to the Reinheitsgebot.

Cheers
MAH

 

[Kai]

As everyone else has said, it's the yeast. However, it's also the way you treat it. Fermentation techniques seem to provide a big role in bringing out that special wheat fermentation profile.

I can't vouch for anything myself having only brewed two (admittedly tasty) hefeweizens, but the general advice seems to be either underpitch or pitch cold to stress the yeast a little. The "rule of 30" is often mentioned, eg pitch at 12 and ferment at 18. And then there are some that swear by the 4-vinyl-guaiacol rest too.

My basic method for a wheat beer is 50% wheat 50% pils, 66-67C mash noble-hopped to 15 IBU, 3068 or schneider weisse starter of around 500mL, OG in the low 1.040's and ferment around 18-22.

 

[Hubby]

Has anybody used Wyeast 3638? :unsure:

I haven't yet ... have some waiting ready to go (ie couldn't get 3068 when I went to G&G last month). There's a few references to it here.

 

[Ash in Perth]

This is going to be my next brew.

2.5kg wheat malt
1.75kg pilsner malt
0.5kg dark munich
0.25kg caramalt (for some sweetness?)

12IBU with saphir hops and 0.5g/L at 10min for a little aroma

wyeast 3056

How does that sound?

Its the first AG and the second wheat ive ever brewed!

 

[Whistlingjack]

I really like this style. Got a good taste for it when I was in Germany this year.

When I got back to Perth, I decided this would be my first (and staple) AG, so I stocked up on Weyermann wheat and pilsner malt. Added Caramunich III and hallertau mittelfruh to the shopping list and I was ready.

Yeast? Brought a bottle of Paulaner back from Germany, but the culture failed, so I bought some Hofbrau and got the yeast from that. I should clarify here that I live a long way from the nearest HBS.

Hit it first time. Hopped to 14 IBU, SRM 10.2 and the right balance of hops, yeast phenols and malt sweetness. Well, I thought it was good! Seemed to have the flavour I was after.

Four more brews later, its still as good.

3kg Weyermann pale wheat
2.5kg Weyermann pilsner
0.5kg Caramunich III

22g Hallertau mittelfruh @ 80min
14g Hallertau mittelfruh @ 15 minutes

Works for me!