Stuck Runoff - @#$% Pellets

[enoch]

For those interested I have been blogging the rebuild of my 55l mash setup to incorporate a March pump and a CWC at Darebin Street Brewery.

Everything went well until the runoff to the fermenter! Whirlpooled, waited a bit a turned the pump on. All went well for a few minutes then it slowed to a trickled. Stop, whirlpool, wait, try again. Ended up turning the pump off and letting gravity do the work. Persisted with "runoff" for a couple of hours then at the recommendation of the assistant brewer gave up o the last 10 litres (still got 40-45).

Subsequent look at the bottom of the boiler confirmed that the braid on the pickup tube which was supposed to filter was solid with hop pellet residue.

(In it's pre brew state)

Does anyone else successfully use this arrangement or will I need to lose the braid and try something more open - suggestions?

Enoch

 

[mika]

Interesting as most people seem to think the stainless braid is the way to go.
Might just be one of those things

 

[enoch]

Works great in the mash tun!

 

[Kai]

I have heard many people say that braid sucks in the kettle. Myself, if I have hop debris in the fermenter then it doesn't really worry me. It'll go when I rack.

 

[ausdb]

Does anyone else successfully use this arrangement or will I need to lose the braid and try something more open - suggestions?

Have you got a pic of the setup after the lastest brew? do you use any plug or whole hops at all?

If you want to persist with the braid then I suggest making a complete loop that goes all the way around the perimeter of your kettle with a T piece joining the ends and connecting to your pickup tube. Or a cheaper and possible better way is a copper ring that fits around the edge of the kettle and slot it every 5-10mm on the underside. Asher has something like this in his plug and play brauhaus and reports good results.

 

[razz]

G'day Enoch. The best way to strain pellets out of the boiler is to use a hop bag. I use a 1/2 inch copper tube to drain the kettle and the only thing that runs through it is trub. There is a huge diff between trub and pellet residue, believe me, take the worry out of your brew day and get rid of the s/s hose. I think ausdb is spot on if you are using whole hops.

 

[Guest Lurker]

I have tried many variations, loops, larger diameter braid and have concluded that braid in the bottom of the kettle is a bad idea. Its not the pellets so much as the break that clogs it. Just do the open tube/whirlpool thing and let some of the crud through to the fermenter.

 

[Murray]

Another vote for the 'lose the braid'. Ausdb's comment on the slotted copper ring around the edge of the kettle is a good one.

 

[Tony M]

From your foto, I cant quite work out what all the bits in the bottom of your kettle are. I would think that when whirling, they would create some turbulence thus preventing you getting a clean little mound in the centre of the pot.
I have in mine a 25mm dia upstand which gives a full volume dump until the last five litres which is then filtered thru the saw slots. Its only the last 2 or 3 litres that are really slow and I leave them there unless my calcs are off and a little more is needed
You could possibly do this with an elbow arrangement.

 

[benhobbs]

Tony M,

What does your drain look like underneath the kettle? Does it get in the way of your burner at all?

I've acquired a kettle, but I haven't got around to put any fittings on it yet, so I am interested to see everyone's different ideas.

Thanks
Ben

 

[Tony M]

Its just an elbow Ben and it doesnt worry the burner tho I get a hot spot there which is evident by the more boil activity over that area.
The copper upstand is just a push fit as it needs to be removed for cleaning. If I recall correctly, I had to peen the end to reduce the dia slightly to make it fit. I may have also ground out the inside of the elbow a little. The memory fades.

 

[///]

mate

saw your set-up - sorry the braid in the mash tun is bad bad bad practice. if you wanna set-up a mash strainer then call meura, order a mash filter or better still go over to coopers and use thiers.

getting alot of trub, clogging the braid in the kettle? you are not using you mash for what it is designed to do, help minimise proteins and solids in the kettle.

answer me this question. When you first open the tap of your mash tun are you getting clear (dont worry about chunks) wort. If it looks like Murry water i'd be chucking the briad, buy a plate of stainless and drill a 3ml hole every 1 cm. Also i'd look to slow the run off and not suck down the mash. sorry your straining your mash, its one of your issues.

garbage in, garbage out I am afraid!

Scotty

 

[enoch]

Next brew I removed the braid in the boiler and left a bit more time post whirl before running off - virtually no trub came through!
The cone collapsed a bit at the end but still not a great deal of stuff was sucked up.

I guess patience is the learning.


Braid in the MLT works fine for me (as a squillion h'brewers have found). Runoff is fairly clear wih minimum recirc and a nice slow runoff results in little compaction risk. Efficiency has gone from average 75% over the last 60-70 mashes to 85% for the first two on the new arrangement. Use coopers? beam me up! :blink:

Enoch
Darebin Street Brewery

 

[Justin]

Glad to see you have got it sorted Enoch. I was just going to post a response that also suggests dumping the braid in the kettle, but it seems you have it sorted and you've done a great job of getting the last of the wort out.

I use no filter whatsoever in the kettle, just a tap mounted in the side of the kettle about where yours is and I get clear wort right until the last bit. I might lose 2-5L of wort depending on how careful I am at the end of the drain when tipping the kettle over to get the last bit.

But I think you have solved your problem-be a bit more paitent for it to settle. I do my cleaning up while it's settling so pretty much the last thing to pack up is drain the kettle to fermenter and then wash it out.

///-Scotty Not sure if your just baiting a response but I'll respond anyway . As for the braid in the mashtun, it works fantastic. You get super clear runoff very quickly-in many cases faster than you get with a false bottom (of course individual milage may vary) but braid clears very, very quickly. In my first mash tun I only had a single straight piece of braid/mesh in the bottom of a square but vertical mash tun. You'd think it would be channeling heaven and I'd get poor efficiency but I would routinely get 85%+ and never once had a stuck sparge. FWIW I'd think there was nearly as much braid in use out there as there are false bottoms or copper manifolds.

Secondly, you'll never get clear run off when you first open the tap. No matter what filter arangement you have you still need to recirculate to clear the wort and set the bed. Mine is usually clear by the time 0.5-1L has been drawn off.

Cheers, Justin

 

[///]

Never get a clear run off when opening the tap? Maybe not in your brewery....

A floating mash means that you carefully add the grist, do not stir to it buggary (you only need to wet the grain, not kill it) and run your first worts very slow. This holds the grains via the air on the husk up in the water and means effective filtering. This is a UK mathod of brewing. Fine grinds, mixing of the mash and Lautering is the German way of doing things - and like most things there is more than one way of skinning a cat and sometimes folks confuse the 2 very different ways of brewing.

Not sure about my baiting comments, but I'd be mindful of contradicting folks without seeing first hand the results. As Rex said in Toy Story - 'Play Zurge, I dont need to, I've been there!' Same with Brite worts on first opening of a tap....

Scotty

 

[warrenlw63]

Adidas or whatever your name is.

Sometimes we've got to be adult enough to admit that commercial and home practices are two differing kettles of fish.

They don't always totally equate.

What floats (and works) for 100 of kgs of grain may not do the same for 5kg of grain.

Warren -

 

[Batz]

Well it's all been said already
Braid in the kettle is useless,and not required anyway(I tried this years ago)
Braid in your mash tun is the only way to go,I have used all the others.

Batz

 

[agraham]

I tie a boiled grain bag around the tap of my boiler...this seems to catch nearly all of the hop pellets in my boiler....couldnt be easier to keep the gunk out of my fermentor.

Cheers,

Andrew