Stuck Brew? Have tried re-pitching...

[whiney1]

Hi, been lurking for a while but this is my first post :beerbang:

Anyway, I've done about 6 brews over the last few months with varying levels of success. Haven't had any infections yet, but think I'm having issues with stuck brewing. Beer coming out of primary fermentation is almost always noticeably sweet, sometime not bad, sometimes quite bad. I won't go over the old ones but here is some info on my current brew, hopefully someone can help. I have read the beginners info, searched, and more importantly, asked a mate who brews alot (and well!) for tips!

- 1x Coopers Wheat Beer can in 10l fermenter (one of the coopers craft brew kits), so is basically a toucan
- sanitized everything with starsan
- rehydrated coopers yeast, pitched + gently stirred
- OG was ~1046

~waited two weeks~

-gravity reading over three days was 1017. Seemed too high, tasted somewhat sweet.
- had a spare packet of coopers yeast from another wheat can, after talking to brewing friend decided to rehydrate that and pitch it, to see what happened...

~waited 3 days~

- Nothing happened! gravity still 1017. No bubbles whenever I checked it. Still tasted somewhat sweet.
- Not sure what to do now!

Other things: No temperature control, but I do have a digital thermometer next to the fermentation vessel. After the first 5 days min was 18.4, max was 19.8, and that is air temp.


Anyway, a bit wordy, but hopefully there is enough detail in there. Cheers!

 

[pat86]

Hey mate,

Sometimes hopped extract and liquid extract in particular can do that - so don't worry too much.

The first thing I would do though is look at using a different yeast and also more of it. For standard pale ales you have a lot of choice - whether dried yeast or liquid yeasts. A lot of the time when I use US05 it takes my beers down to 1010-1012 and similar or a bit drier with some others.

If you are keen on Coopers yeast you can even buy a liquid version of it. Regarding quantity, it isn't too bad since you are making half sized batches, but often the yeast that comes with kits will not really be enough and the quality is often a bit more questionable than a commercial yeast which has probably been stored properly in transit and stores.

Without changing any ingredients, there are a few things you could do.

Make sure you oxygenate your wort before you pitch your yeast - this will help it along.

I would also look at your fermentation. What temp did you pitch at? What temp did you re-hydrate your yeast? How long did you ferment? Make sure you aren't re-hydrating your yeast with water that is too hot and you also don't want there to be a big temp difference between your pitch temp and yeast temp. pitching yeast at 35C into 17C wort is a big drop in temp for them to handle.

During Ferment - if the temperature changed, what was the biggest drop? Ideally if any change is going to happen, you would want to raise the temp up a few degrees as fermentation slows - for lagers this is known as a d-rest but some people do similar with ales to help the yeast finish up. A pale ale for me may ferment at 17C for 9 days and 19-20C for 3 days, before I cold crash.

After primary fermentation slows, you could try gently rocking or swirling the fermenter to get the yeast back up in suspension - some yeasts tend to drop out quicker than others, that is what people mean when you read about 'flocculation'. Coopers yeast shouldn't be too bad, but give that a try, just don't shake it enough to mix in oxygen into the fermented beer.

The other thing I would look to do is perhaps introduce some other fermentables besides liquid extract into your wort. You could try using dried malt extract, a small amount of dextrose or even better, steep some grains. Regarding sweetness, you could add hops in to increase the bitterness and you can also adjust the level of carbonation which will also affect how sweet it tastes.

Good luck!

 

[pat86]

Oh yeah, if you have the spare yeast, I would consider next time pitching both packs from the start, rather than one and hoping it does the job. That said - using non-kit yeast is a big step - you could also look at drinking a few six packs of coopers and using the dregs. The more beers you drink, the more yeast you have - just don't backwash!

 

[whiney1]

Good luck!

Appreciate the quick and long reply, cheers!

To answer your questions: pitched at about 25C according to the FV thermometer, yeast rehydrated once boiled water had cooled down to about the same (IR thermometer) but then left on bench for 10-15 mins before pitching. FV temp just went up and down gradually between 18.4 and 19.8, no big drops, its in a very thermally stable room!

Some of the other brews I've done have been similarly sweet, using cooper brew enhancers at standard levels. Haven't tried adding hops yet, but seems like it would be masking a fermenting issue rather than balancing out the flavour?

I bought a commercial yeast to use on the second wheat can I have (a little bit of an experiment to see how it goes!) which is why I had the spare other pack. I could try chucking that in, but don't want to waste it and the coopers one did... nothing! haha.

FWIW, the fermenting went nuts over the first few days of brewing, so I get the feeling lack of yeast isn't the issue? Rehydrated second yeast was bubbling away before pitching too, like 3cm foam on top of the glass.


So tips to try and save this one then would be to try and gently swirl the FV to try and get some yeast back in suspension?

 

[Yob]

My bet is an under pitch

 

[whiney1]

My bet is an under pitch

By this, do you mean not enough yeast going in?

Totally correct me if I am wrong (likely), but if there was not enough yeast and therefore still stuff to ferment out, wouldn't there be some activity when I put the second pack in?

 

[Yob]

Wort is made up of both simple and complex sugars and all sorts of other stuff that help yeast get going, the first lot may well have consumed all the simple sugars and nutrients leaving stuff all but more complex sugars,

Lager yeasts can help here if you have temp control, lager yeasts will consume sugars that ale yeast won't, you'd probably get the points you want that way... Or by adding a large pitch of yeast, say, some slurry from another ferment.

There are many ways to get extra points but you need to work out which best suits the beer.

When trying to add new yeast, such as you've done, an active fermenting yeast will preform better and will have more of a chance

 

[whiney1]

When trying to add new yeast, such as you've done, an active fermenting yeast will preform better and will have more of a chance

Does active fermenting yeast mean a different type (ie commercial not from the can?), or just that its been rehydrated and is 'active' (bubbling etc) again?

Also, I'm going to do an identical brew once I'm done with this one using 'DANSTAR MUNICH Wheat Yeast', with the idea to test how well it goes against coopers kit yeast.

 

[whiney1]

Actually also, my brewing friend recommended I give a 'low carb enzyme' a try. He explained it as being able to break down some of the complex sugars into fermentable simple sugars. Any thoughts on this?

 

[pat86]

Does active fermenting yeast mean a different type (ie commercial not from the can?), or just that its been rehydrated and is 'active' (bubbling etc) again?

Also, I'm going to do an identical brew once I'm done with this one using 'DANSTAR MUNICH Wheat Yeast', with the idea to test how well it goes against coopers kit yeast.

Rehydrating yeast is not the same as active yeast in this case. You could pitch active yeast from another batch you have going or you could make a starter so that the yeast is essentially hitting the wort running, not just having a standing start. I haven't used the enzyme so can't really chime in if it will help this current beer at this stage.

If I were in your shoes and the next brew was a onecan toucan base, I would aerate like crazy, make a small-medium starter to get the yeast count and activity up - pitch appropriately (e.g. 19C into 19C wort) and then follow a very friendly ferment schedule such as 19C for 3-5 days then raise the temp to 21-23C to finish off and I would give a gentle swirl every day or two. Make sure it is completely done before crashing - I would be really surprised if you still ended up anywhere near 1017.

 

[whiney1]

If I were in your shoes and the next brew was a onecan toucan base, I would aerate like crazy, make a small-medium starter to get the yeast count and activity up - pitch appropriately (e.g. 19C into 19C wort) and then follow a very friendly ferment schedule such as 19C for 3-5 days then raise the temp to 21-23C to finish off and I would give a gentle swirl every day or two. Make sure it is completely done before crashing - I would be really surprised if you still ended up anywhere near 1017.

^^ Cheers, will do. I haven't actively aerated any of my brews, and this could be a reason that I'm getting this recurring issue.

FWIW, I've just bottled it off and will see how it goes. Into tapking bottles, one for force carbing, and a couple for natural carbing.

 

[chrisbroadie1985]

I currently have a brew fermenting which went like crazy for about a day, went to work yesterday morning heaps of activity, by the time i got home nothing. it was a bit cooler yesterday and the temp on the outside of the FV has dropped from 19-20 to 18 and i'm wondering after reading the above that this is the problem?

Should I give the tank a swirl and wrap in a towel? Would this help?