Stuck Brew And "dry Enzyme"

[wabster]

I pitched an APA style brew at OG 1052 in mid-June, and after 3 weeks the gravity was 1030. It was still at 1030 at 6 weeks, despite racking, additional yeast and aeration. I was outta ideas on this.

At a exhibition day at Casula Country Rrewer last Saturday, the fellow giving the sessions suggested maybe I'd mashed at too high a temperature, and the stuck brew was because of too many complex/unfermentable sugars as a result. His suggested solution was to add a pack of "dry enzyme". Despite being fairly sure I'd done the correct mash temps, I couldn't be 100% sure.

Lacking any further ideas I bought and added a $2 pack of the dry enzyme, and added it to my stuck brew mid afternoon Saturday 2nd August.

Since a few hours after the addition, the brew has been fermenting like a steam train, the airlock is hammering away. I can only assume his analysis was correct.

My question now is, how long will this take to get to a finishing Gravity and can it go too low?

Has anyone done this to solve a stuck brew problem and what were the results in terms of FG and overall end result quality.

I might add that without doing this addition of dry enzyme, the brew which smells and tastes fine but just wouldn't ferment out, was destined for the drain. The smell coming out of the airlock at present is wonderful Which is encouraging.

Thanks for any comments, Cheerz Wab.

 

[Adamt]

I'm guessing your hydrometer is working correctly?

If it is fermenting rather quickly it should take about 3-5 days, look for normal signs of the end of fermentation though. Unfortunately it will ferment very dry and you may find it seems more bitter than it actually is.

I have never used it myself, though. What was your mash temperature anyway?

 

[wambesi]

Hey Wab good to hear it started up again.

Like he said (sorry his name eludes me) it most likely will go down some more but not like it should - I think he said about 10 points or so?

Anyway my uneducated guess would be similar to other brews, let it take it's course and when the bubbling stops check the SG over a few days, is it under temp control?
You might be looking at a few days to a week or so I guess.

Cheers

 

[Adamt]

Actually, it will probably get down closer to 1.000 from what I understand.

 

[wambesi]

Actually, it will probably get down closer to 1.000 from what I understand.

But if it is like this bloke said and has a stack of unfermentable sugars in it, wouldn't it give it just a bit of a boost?
I know if it is added and everything ferments out normal (ie. normal amount of fermentables) it will go lower.

 

[Screwtop]

Same as usual, when it's at the same gravity over three days it's finished, no matter what the gravity. Did this recently on one that stopped at 1.022 only adding half of the amount recommended it finished at 1.000. Hate using Alpha Enzyme, gives me headaches, even a couple of glasses, still half a keg to go.

 

[wambesi]

Same as usual, when it's at the same gravity over three days it's finished, no matter what the gravity. Did this recently on one that stopped at 1.022 only adding half of the amount recommended it finished at 1.000. Hate using Alpha Enzyme, gives me headaches, even a couple of glasses, still half a keg to go.

Didn't realise it would still go so low, learn something new everyday, love this hobby.

Thats alot of headaches coming your way!

 

[dr K]

I guess you have to ask yourself..do I want this to happen again, and if it does am I happy to throw a packet of unidentified "enzymes" in.
The mash regime, at the gravities you have quoted cannot be the only culprit but it is a good start.
What was you liquor to grist ratio? The L:G is more important than many realise for correct amalyse activity.
How well did you dough in?
What was your measured mash temp and did you take a stable measurement after completion of dough in?
How fresh was your yeast, how much did you pitch, was it liquid or dry?

You added more yeast, was from the same batch?

I agree that when a beer is done it is done, now if it tasted OK at 1030, then drink it at 1030!!

Sort through these and may all your subsequent beers be additive free!!!

K

 

[axl]

Actually, it will probably get down closer to 1.000 from what I understand.

Just a quick note. You can always stop fermentation early if you want to. I quite often do this for ciders. If you want a drink with more residual sugars (sweeter) just get it to the gravity your happy with (a simple taste test), then chill it, filter it then carb it up.
Sweet, Dry or Draght? You decide...

 

[Screwtop]

Remember if you're doing a single infusion mash, drop your mash temp a little if using high enzymic malts, pouring in water that is 10 or so hotter than required mash temp will see some conversion occuring at hotter temps before the mash reaches equilibrium, even though this takes maybe only 5 - 10 min. So maybe aim for a 2 - 3 degree lower mash temp.

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[katzke]

Just a quick note. You can always stop fermentation early if you want to. I quite often do this for ciders. If you want a drink with more residual sugars (sweeter) just get it to the gravity your happy with (a simple taste test), then chill it, filter it then carb it up.
Sweet, Dry or Draght? You decide...

From my limited understanding the enzyme will still convert starches and unfermentables to sugar. If you kill the yeast to stop the ferment then the beer will end up with the extra sugars.

Remember we denature the enzymes by raising the temp of the mash/wort. That is what stops the conversions.

 

[Millet Man]

From my limited understanding the enzyme will still convert starches and unfermentables to sugar. If you kill the yeast to stop the ferment then the beer will end up with the extra sugars.

Remember we denature the enzymes by raising the temp of the mash/wort. That is what stops the conversions.

It will actually convert complex sugars and dextrins to simple sugars - glucose if you use an amyloglucosidaise enzyme which is your standard dry beer enzyme. At ferment temps it will take 1-2 weeks, quicker at ale temps, slower at lager temps. Shouldn't be any starch in your fermenter.

At serving temperature in a keg the yeast and enzyme activity will continue but very slowly, so crash chilling it should save some body.

Cheers, Andrew.

 

[wabster]

I'd like to thank everyone for their input into this subject, it has been a great learning experience for me, that appears at this point, bottling day, to have been successful judging by the FG and the taste of the hydrometer sample. I believe the hydrometer is accurate and the initial S04 yeast was viable.

While DrK's questions are too complex for my limited knowledge at this stage I'm following up on it all but have come to the following conclusion. I feel it is indeed likely that when I added the water to the grain to mash that I put it in boiling, and it was too hot for too long before getting down to 66-67C for mashing.

The result I believe is too many complex sugars and fermentation didn't complete. I don't pretend to understand why that happened or how it works/doesn't but will soon enough.

After adding the dry beer enzyme, or Amyloglucosidase Enzyme the brew fired up and went crazy for a week or two and the final gravity was 1012 which it had maintained for a week prior to bottling today. That's 2 months in the brewer, though it was racked.

I look forward to trying it in a months time, again thanks to all for the help comments and support. Cheerz Wabster

 

[wambesi]

Good to hear it came down, now for the taste test!
Now I need to get more brews down, the fridge is looking quite bare

 

[rude]

Dried enzymes yuck used to do a cultured coopers stubby of vintage & pitch with a stout K&K wich got stuck twice. Only tried it twice.It started to ferment really well & then ran out of steam leaving me high & dry.My HBS said sometimes dark beers do that & sold me a dried enzyme to finish it off.

I am now brewing again after a long break & have learnt heaps off this forum. I think the problem was that I fermented at too high a temperature around 24 22c & I allways under pitched my yeast,

Just a quck question while I am here MR Malty recons 1.8 litres for 22litres for an ale simple starter is this about right.

I have only got a 2litre flagon so have started with a left over britt 11 in a stubby (500ml )10 to 1 malt ratio 300ml vol. Will ferment out, fridge it, pour off & do a 1 litre starter fridge it, pour off & do another 1 litre starter pour off & pitch to my 22 litre wort.

Jeez sorry about the hijack on this thread lots of questions

Iam not a gun but to me dried enzymes are rank tasting