Strong belgian style beer from kit?

[eMPTy]

Hi everyone,

Just wondering if anyone has had a success brewing a high alcohol content style Belgian beer from a kit?

I know Mangrove Jack's offers a Belgian style can, i'm not sure of any other brands that do. Has anyone tried adding a good quality Belgian style yeast and other stuff to try get something like a Tripel or Belgian Strong Ale type beer? Do you think it would be possible to get something that doesn't taste like pure alcohol with such a simple base?

Cheers!

 

[wobbly]

Williamswarn also do a Belgian kit.

But this might be more what you are looking for:-

Copied from this site http://homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9200

Quantity Grain Use
1.70 kg Mangrove Jack's Belgium Ale
1.50 kg Amber D.M.E. extract
0.40 kg Golden Syrup
0.50 kg Dark Candy Sugar granules

Quantity Hop Form Time
15.00 g Cascade pellet 60 minutes
15.00 g Saaz pellet 20 minutes
15.00 g Saaz pellet 0 minutes

3tbps crushed coriander seeds
1 orange rind
Belgium Ale yeast (from Mangrove Jack's kit)

And the follow up comments were:-

Just put down another on Saturday in an attempt to further perfect the same beer. Turned out that by throwing in the coriander seeds it clogged up my bottler

Have taken someone's suggestion to steep the seeds for 20 minutes and then strain the liquid in, discarding the seeds. Also dried the orange peel first in the oven on low for an hour.
I swapped the golden syrup out and replaced with Molasses which is tasting really nice in the sample I took and also added an extra 1.5kg malt.

It has ended up as a potential 10.85% abv and over the past three days has already fermented down to 2.4% remaining so I'm really happy with that. Probably class it as a Quadrupel I'd say.

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[Blind Dog]

Have you considered a fresh wort kit? I know ESB do a Belgian Golden Ale and a Dubbel that are each around 7%, others may also make them. No idea if they are any good though as I've never used an FWK.

 

[eMPTy]

Williamswarn also do a Belgian kit.

But this might be more what you are looking for:-

Copied from this site http://homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9200

....

Cheers

Wobbly

Interesting. Cheers for that. Have you used any Williamswarn stuff before? I am pretty new to the hobby but can't say i've heard of it.

Have you considered a fresh wort kit? I know ESB do a Belgian Golden Ale and a Dubbel that are each around 7%, others may also make them. No idea if they are any good though as I've never used an FWK.

Hadn't really given it too much consideration at the time of posting if i'm honest. The ESB fresh wort kits do look quite interesting, although there is not alot of information about how to best use them on their website...

 

[Lord Ester]

I'm pretty new to all this. I have a Duvel copy sitting in my FV currently. It was basically a Cooper's Canadian Blonde kit with a $hitload of sucrose (sugar) in it, about 1kg of LDM, hopped with Helga, filled to 21lt and topped off with MJ's Belgian Ale Yeast. It will be a big beer; somewhere around 10% ABV. Fermented it slightly on the warm side. My version of it is only slightly modded on another version already on the net ...

 

[eMPTy]

I'm pretty new to all this. I have a Duvel copy sitting in my FV currently. It was basically a Cooper's Canadian Blonde kit with a $hitload of sucrose (sugar) in it, about 1kg of LDM, hopped with Helga, filled to 21lt and topped off with MJ's Belgian Ale Yeast. It will be a big beer; somewhere around 10% ABV. Fermented it slightly on the warm side. My version of it is only slightly modded on another version already on the net ...

Very interested in hearing how that turns out.

I am thinking i might try do something similar and get either a blonde kit or a Mangrove Jack's Belgian Ale and add plenty to boost the alcohol then buy a good Belgian style Wyeast to replace whatever it comes with.

Alternatively, perhaps i'll try that interesting ESB Fresh Wort Kit idea (as i've never heard how they fare) and either do similar to that or reduce the water top up to increase ABV?

 

[wobbly]

Hey empty

I understand Absolute Home Brew Supplies in Sydney stock the Williamswarn kits - Google is your friend!!!!

Williamswarn (Google is your friend if you are interested in finding out more about the WW) produced a PDF with something like 58 kit recipes (one for every BJCP style) based on their kits but you could use Black Rock or Mangrove Jacks as I think they are all produced in the same brewery

For their Belgians they use Fermentis T58 yeast and recommend for OG over 1060 you use two packets

If you are interested in the PDF send me a PM and I will pass it onto you

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[anthonyUK]

I think you could make up something pretty good with a suitable donor kit, brew it short and add some home made candi syrup.
Use a suitable yeast such as the ones already mentioned above.

For an off the shelf kit I would try a Coopers dark ale.

 

[eMPTy]

I think you could make up something pretty good with a suitable donor kit, brew it short and add some home made candi syrup.
Use a suitable yeast such as the ones already mentioned above.

For an off the shelf kit I would try a Coopers dark ale.

Out of curiosity, why the Coopers dark?

 

[manticle]

If you want to brew a golden strong, get a high quality pale coloured kit like coopers heritage lager.
Add briess pilsen or weyermann pilsner malt to hit about 1065. Add 200g dex, about 10-20 g fresh styrian goldings and 10g fresh saaz. Boil for 10 minutes, add to fermenter with top up water (good quality, soft, clean water).
Ferment with a very fresh pack (preferably 2 unless you're willing and able to make a starter) of wyeast 1388, belgian strong ale. When ferment is just about done, add 200g more of dex, boiled in enough water to dissolve. Leave 2-3 days and repeat until you have added 1kg of dex total (incl. the 200 to first boil).
Leave 3 more days then cold condition for 1 week, add finings if desired and leave in cold for a further 2-3 weeks.
Long process, expensive ingredients but should get close to duvel and worth the money and time.
To make a tripel, use half half briess/wey pils and munich. Also Wyeast 1762, belgian abbey II works well in a tripel.
Start fermentation at 17 (wort temp) and allow to rise slowly to 22 for gs or tripel.

 

[wobbly]

It would depend on what you were trying to emulate

EBC IBU
Belgian Blonde 8 - 14 15 - 25
Belgian Pale Ale 16 - 28 20 - 30
Dubble 20 - 35 15 - 25
Tripple 9 - 14 20 - 40
Dark Strong 24 - 43 20 - 35

I have seen the above numbers for various Belgians and a Cookers Dark at around EBC of 48 and IBU of 43 doesn't seem to fit any of them

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[eMPTy]

If you want to brew a golden strong, get a high quality pale coloured kit like coopers heritage lager.
Add briess pilsen or weyermann pilsner malt to hit about 1065. Add 200g dex, about 10-20 g fresh styrian goldings and 10g fresh saaz. Boil for 10 minutes, add to fermenter with top up water (good quality, soft, clean water).
Ferment with a very fresh pack (preferably 2 unless you're willing and able to make a starter) of wyeast 1388. When ferment is just about done, add 200g more of dex, boiled in enough water to dissolve. Leave 2-3 days and repeat until you have added 1kg of dex total (incl. the 200 to first boil).
Leave 3 more days then cold condition for 1 week, add finings if desired and leave in cold for a further 2-3 weeks.
Long process, expensive ingredients but should get close to duvel and worth the money and time.
To make a tripel, use half half briess/wey pils and munich. Also wey 1762 works well in a tripel.
Start fermentation at 17 (wort temp) and allow to rise slowly to 22 for gs or tripel.

Thanks mate, will have a think on that.

Has anyone tried harvesting yeast from a high ABV beer before? Just occurred to me I have access to some La Trappe Quadrupel. I have heard that harvesting yeast from high ABV commercial beers is unlikely to yield good results due to yeast stress. If it could work though, that could be an interesting addition to this creation.

 

[anthonyUK]

Out of curiosity, why the Coopers dark?

It has a lowish IBU and I think it would suit the style if you upped the SG with additional malt or candi.

 

[barls]

does anyone still carry the brewferm kits. they made a decent belgian from memory

 

[manticle]

Thanks mate, will have a think on that.

Has anyone tried harvesting yeast from a high ABV beer before? Just occurred to me I have access to some La Trappe Quadrupel. I have heard that harvesting yeast from high ABV commercial beers is unlikely to yield good results due to yeast stress. If it could work though, that could be an interesting addition to this creation.

You can reharvest yeast from bottles and it can be a fun exercise.
However yeast character is such a key to a good belgian and the fresher, less stressed it is, the more likely you are to get a good beer. Believe me I have tried so many routes and the above method I provided has given me the closest results to a commercially available, high gravity belgian (albeit ag but fermentation and maturation are at least as important as ingredients and wort production method).

By all means play with yeast reculture but at the same time buy a decent amount of fresh, healthy, easily available liquid yeast from wyeast or whitelabs and try side by side. So many good strains available too. To be honest, I reckon dipping your worn sock in the wort would give as good a result as recultured bottle yeast from a quad that's travelled halfway across the world but find a fresh enkel or belgian pale/table beer and try out the bottle culture thing.

 

[manticle]

It has a lowish IBU and I think it would suit the style if you upped the SG with additional malt or candi.

Might work well for a dubbel but OP (post) suggests OP (poster) is after a tripel or golden strong. Generally higher ibu works for those two, obviously paler kit too.

 

[shacked]

Hey mate,

I did this one a while back: http://www.esbrewing.com.au/belgian-tripel-style-recipe-pack.html

It required a fair bit of time in the bottle to get to its best but it ended up being a tasty brew.

 

[eMPTy]

Hey mate,

I did this one a while back: http://www.esbrewing.com.au/belgian-tripel-style-recipe-pack.html

It required a fair bit of time in the bottle to get to its best but it ended up being a tasty brew.

I had looked around that site but hadn't stumbled across the recipe packs... That's very interesting, either as a rough recipe/style idea or even just to buy and see how it goes.

I've never used Candi sugar before, what would it be bringing to the recipe?

 

[shacked]

To be honest, other than ABV, I'm not really sure.

I've used dark candi sugar in a Belgian Red Ale and it added a nice bit of colour. Again it was an ESB recipe pack (http://www.esbrewing.com.au/abbey-red-ale-style-recipe-pack.html)

This might help: http://byo.com/grains/item/1552-using-brewing-sugars-tips-from-the-pros

 

[eMPTy]

This might help: http://byo.com/grains/item/1552-using-brewing-sugars-tips-from-the-pros

That helps a great deal