Strange "break" Material In Fermenter

[GuyQLD]

Ok now I'm just getting annoyed.

This is the second time I've tried to make Smurto's JS Golden Ale and both times the wort has done strange things too me.

First time I chalked it up to some rogue yeast in the fermenter and blamed myself for it but this time I hit everything with so much starsan you could have performed brain surgery in here.

Tried to get a photo but you really can't see a lot so didn't bother to upload it but everything looked normal until the temperatue dropped below 30'C... now suddenly I have what looks like clouds forming in the top of the wort - with some spidery white stuff in the middle.

It can't be an infection this early can it? It's only been off the stove for 4 hours.

Is this just more cold break that only kicks in under 30? Hopefully I'm panicking about nothing but I'm going to be really quite frustrated if I lose this batch.

Edit: Did some more research after my initial panic attack. I didn't realise you would still get cold break under 30 depending on how quick it was dropping. Got a bit colder after 9 and this must have been enough for it to start doing strange things.

I'll ride it out and hopefully no harm done.

Went back and grabbed a photo anyway, but it isn't great.

 

[Steve@PMF82]

Is this just more cold break that only kicks in under 30? Hopefully I'm panicking about nothing but I'm going to be really quite frustrated if I lose this batch.

This would be my guess

 

[Cocko]

So is this no chilling in the fermenter here?

What procedure are you using Guy?

 

[GuyQLD]

I stick my kettle in the bath with the cold tap on, but only got it down to 35 degrees this time.

Last two successful brews I didn't even get it down that far, but a quick overnight in the fermenter and each morning I pitched no worries. I guess you'd called it partial chill? I always pitch within 24 hours so I'm mainly just trying to get it below temps bittering still occurs.

 

[seemax]

No chill, ferment, all in the same container... don't worry about cold break and hop debris.. it will settle if you cold condition after fermentation. Try some whirlfloc (15min before end of boil) to help coagulate it all at whirlpool.

 

[GuyQLD]

This will teach me to search before I post....

Found a picture in this thread on northern brewer

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic....380&start=0

Which looks exactly like what I've got.

I'm going to get another beer. Thanks all.

 

[kelbygreen]

its cold break many try to keep it out when no chilling but I figure if you have a counter flow chiller or a plate chiller then your getting all the cold break into fermenter as it forms in the chiller. I would not worry a bit I tip the lot into the fermenter.

dont worry to much you will be fine it looks gross in the cube but I have been told its good for the yeast

 

[flano]

I stick my kettle in the bath with the cold tap on, but only got it down to 35 degrees this time.

Last two successful brews I didn't even get it down that far, but a quick overnight in the fermenter and each morning I pitched no worries. I guess you'd called it partial chill? I always pitch within 24 hours so I'm mainly just trying to get it below temps bittering still occurs.

to chill quickly

I have a good method
.
I use old coke bottle full of water ...frozen.

I fill the laundry tub first with cold water. put kettle/biab pot in.

Wait 20 mins ...then change the water.

wait another 20 mins then refresh again...once it starts getting luke warmish add a couple of frozen bottles.
wait another hour or so or until water is getting cold....add another couple of frozen bottles.

you'll work it out.


works greats.. from boiling to pitching temp in approx 2 hrs.

be interesting to see what uses more water..my method or the copper coil thingy.

 

[JulieRush]

to chill quickly

I have a good method
.
I use old coke bottle full of water ...frozen.

I fill the laundry tub first with cold water. put kettle/biab pot in.

Wait 20 mins ...then change the water.

wait another 20 mins then refresh again...once it starts getting luke warmish add a couple of frozen bottles.
wait another hour or so or until water is getting cold....add another couple of frozen bottles.

you'll work it out.


works greats.. from boiling to pitching temp in approx 2 hrs.

be interesting to see what uses more water..my method or the copper coil thingy.

this is the way I chill mine and it works a treat

 

[GuyQLD]

this is the way I chill mine and it works a treat

It was just cold break, it's all fermented out now and almost clean, apart from the usual US-05 crap I get on the top. I don't have a fridge I can cold crash in and this yeast always leaves a few bits of stuff around on the surface.

slightly off topic but same brew. Usually (I say usually despite only doing it twice) when I dry hop on about day 5 I just dop the hops into whatever is currently there and then wait the rest of the time etc (2-3 weeks primary)...

I was listening to Brew Strong a week or so ago and Jamil said that he always racks to a secondary for dry hopping.

I'm aware of the obvious infection/cleaner beer debate (and keeping in mind I can't crash chill easily) but has anyone really explored how this changes the way dry hopping behaves (if it does at all)?

I'm thinking 2-3 primary then 1 week secondary with dry hops? The aim of limiting the secondary time is purely to control how long the dry hopping takes. I suppose a nylon bag in the primary and just taking it out would work just as easily... but I was interested why Jamil said he always does it in secondary

 

[bum]

but I was interested why Jamil said he always does it in secondary

I'd imagine that it is because he always does it.

If you've read How To Brew, you might have noticed that he has some particularly old fashioned opinions that he likes to present as facts. Doesn't mean they are wrong but it also doesn't mean the methods he presents are the only valid ones.

You say you're aware of the infection vs clarity issue - there's not really much to know beyond that. You can try both methods and see which you feel works best for you or you can make a decision based on the opinions you've read. Both methods will make good beer if your processes are good.

 

[Nick JD]

Here's the thing I always am puzzled by: secondary being an infection problem.

If you can put down ten batchs and not get an infection, you can rack ten to secondary and also not.

Primary fermentation is sweet sugary liquid with a tiny population of yeast. And it didn't get infected. Now, it's an oxygen-free, alcoholic solution and you're more worried?

If you can't rack to secondary and not get an infection, you shouldn't be brewing in the first place.

 

[bum]

Here's the thing I always am puzzled by: secondary being an infection problem.

If you can put down ten batchs and not get an infection, you can rack ten to secondary and also not.

It is simple probability though, innit? It might be fair to assume that a home brewer can never completely remove the chance of infection so racking to secondary might double or even treble the risk (treble for the hose?). Even when that risk is very low some brewers might not like to chance it when they feel they can achieve the same end with an extended primary.

 

[Charst]

Here's the thing I always am puzzled by: secondary being an infection problem.

If you can put down ten batchs and not get an infection, you can rack ten to secondary and also not.

Primary fermentation is sweet sugary liquid with a tiny population of yeast. And it didn't get infected. Now, it's an oxygen-free, alcoholic solution and you're more worried?

If you can't rack to secondary and not get an infection, you shouldn't be brewing in the first place.

Yes but if you rack to secondary post when the fermentation has dropped right off chances are you won't end up with a C02 barrier sitting on the beer, leaving greater chance for aerobic bacteria to take hold. Rack 10 to secondary after they've been in primary for three weeks and tell you you don't get a skin on one.

(yes if i was planning on racking to secondary i would do it earlier than that for reasons stated above)

 

[Nick JD]

I would avoid racking to primary where possible. Source of infection, it is. Ferment in your kettle. Anything else is DANGEROUS and RISKY PRACTICE.

 

[kymba]

...I was listening to Brew Strong...

oh man, listing to those podcasts is like going to town on my ears with a rat-tail file then having it "proudly sponsored by douchey-mc-rat-tail file company"

haha and the branches and twigs thing all the time...fark! we get it already!

sorry, hijack over

 

[bum]

Yes but if you rack to secondary post when the fermentation has dropped right off chances are you won't end up with a C02 barrier sitting on the beer, leaving greater chance for aerobic bacteria to take hold. Rack 10 to secondary after they've been in primary for three weeks and tell you you don't get a skin on one.

(yes if i was planning on racking to secondary i would do it earlier than that for reasons stated above)

If there's any CO2 in solution then the act of racking would probably knock out enough to produce the much lauded "barrier".

 

[Charst]

If there's any CO2 in solution then the act of racking would probably knock out enough to produce the much lauded "barrier".

Who's side are you on Bum :lol:

 

[kymba]

i thought it was the 'protective layer'

 

[bum]

Who's side are you on Bum :lol:

I thought I was being all diplomatic and **** originally.

As for sides, I only rack to secondary when I have a pretty good reason. "Because Jamil said so" does not qualify as a good reason in my books.

It must be said that the one beer of his I've had was pretty damned enjoyable and significantly better than my own beers.