Steeped Warmish

[RdeVjun]

Hiya, I did my first real steep with specialty grains today, but may've SNAFUed the first go at it on account of a high-ish temperature.
I used the Raceday Red Ale as a rough guide and used 0.2kg Carared, 0.1kg Dark Crystal and 0.03kg Carafa T1 in my second attempt which was steeped at between 50 & 60 and is now in the fermenter with 3.4kg of LME, some flavour and aroma Northern Brewer and that "go sick em" Nottingham.
But in the first go, which is now just in bottles in the fridge, I started with a pot with 3 litres of rainwater and heated it up on the stove and threw the grain in when I thought it was right, but with a busted thermometer, I couldn't accurately tell the temp and I think it was a tad high initially. It was just cool enough to touch, but a bit steamy, although I know I should've paid closer attention to this [smacks head, buys proper thermometer, smacks head again as a reminder], once it was in there, there wasn't a lot I could do. Hence I did a second batch at lower temperature as I have plenty of grain on hand. The first batch seems slightly tannin-ish and I'm wondering if I should toss it rather than try and resurrect it into something when I have some fermenter space.
I'm well pleased with the taste of the second batch, its fine, but I didn't keep a sample of the second steepings to compare with the first one, I just wanted to get the boil happening and the mess cleaned up at that stage. (Oh, and yeah, it can be a bit messy, preparation is the key here I think.)
So, should toss the first batch? Or is it redeemable?
Also, initially when I first started the steeping, I was rather worried with these new ingredients that I was hitting that raw, floury, grain- husky taste that I really despise in some micro and boutique brews but it seems to have been taken care of in the boil or even diluted in the final blend that's in the fermenter- it is just choice! Whew...

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

There are a few steeping methods

Dis you use cracked grain..??


Cold steeping...just put the crushed grain in cold water and let sit for 24hrs

Hot steeping...pour boiling water into your pot of grain and let sit

Boil steeping...boil the speciality grains for 10 mins then drain

These all work...some say that cold steeping is better with lots of dark grain like Choc or Roast barley


or Mash it...but as you are K&K...that aint an option


Hope this helps

 

[staggalee]

I never steep any other way but cold for 24 hours now, always a good result.

stagga.

 

[thylacine]

I never steep any other way but cold for 24 hours now, always a good result.

stagga.

Neophytes: re 'Cold Steeping'
"...The water is just room temperature water, water out the
cold water tap if using tap watercold steeping does not mean using chilled water!..."

http://www.jovialmonk.com.au/brewManual/Steeping_grains.pdf

 

[RdeVjun]

Thanks for replies so far, much appreciated.
Cold Steep: Yes, thought of that last night but the then state of inebriation prevented much actually taking place to facilitate it. Noted, and think its probably the method for me, particularly with these darker specialty malts. Noted2: Not cold, as in refrigerated, but room temperature.
Hot: Could be, seems pretty simple. Temperature bothers me a tad though WRT to our steeping grains wiki, but I'll give anything a try once. Sort of have already done that (good, I'll keep batch 1 then!).
Boil: Freaks me out, as above.
Mash: Perhaps when Kev's bonus shows up... (Hint: Ross et al, there could just be a window opening there... )

Its occurred to me that I could use my usual disposal method on the first steeped batch and do a stout with it, a toucan even (this is the k&k section after all). Its a great means to get rid of all sorts of unpleasant mis- matches/takes, blemishes, leftovers and can hide just about anything, including the proverbial. [/sacrelige.]

Anyway, we'll see how the cookie crumbles, many thanks for the tips.

 

[manticle]

Hiya, I did my first real steep with specialty grains today, but may've SNAFUed the first go at it on account of a high-ish temperature.
I used the Raceday Red Ale as a rough guide and used 0.2kg Carared, 0.1kg Dark Crystal and 0.03kg Carafa T1 in my second attempt which was steeped at between 50 & 60 and is now in the fermenter with 3.4kg of LME, some flavour and aroma Northern Brewer and that "go sick em" Nottingham.
But in the first go, which is now just in bottles in the fridge, I started with a pot with 3 litres of rainwater and heated it up on the stove and threw the grain in when I thought it was right, but with a busted thermometer, I couldn't accurately tell the temp and I think it was a tad high initially. It was just cool enough to touch, but a bit steamy, although I know I should've paid closer attention to this [smacks head, buys proper thermometer, smacks head again as a reminder], once it was in there, there wasn't a lot I could do. Hence I did a second batch at lower temperature as I have plenty of grain on hand. The first batch seems slightly tannin-ish and I'm wondering if I should toss it rather than try and resurrect it into something when I have some fermenter space.
I'm well pleased with the taste of the second batch, its fine, but I didn't keep a sample of the second steepings to compare with the first one, I just wanted to get the boil happening and the mess cleaned up at that stage. (Oh, and yeah, it can be a bit messy, preparation is the key here I think.)
So, should toss the first batch? Or is it redeemable?
Also, initially when I first started the steeping, I was rather worried with these new ingredients that I was hitting that raw, floury, grain- husky taste that I really despise in some micro and boutique brews but it seems to have been taken care of in the boil or even diluted in the final blend that's in the fermenter- it is just choice! Whew...

I'd keep it and see. I've steeped at temps that were too high and it's come out ok. I think maybe a prolonged boil will give irredeemable bitter tannins but slightly too high for a bit is probably not worth worrying about.

Can you combine first and second batch?

 

[RdeVjun]

I'd keep it and see. I've steeped at temps that were too high and it's come out ok. I think maybe a prolonged boil will give irredeemable bitter tannins but slightly too high for a bit is probably not worth worrying about.

Can you combine first and second batch?

Yep, its a keeper, for sure. Sounds like it will be ok, its probably just my inherent paranoia getting ahead of itself.
Can't really combine them as far as I can tell- the second one's boiled up with malt & hops, plus the yeast's in the fermenter already! Unless I blend post- fermentation, but if its a good brew on its own, I'd rather just keep it that way. Good idea though! Thanks!

 

[RdeVjun]

Dis you use cracked grain..??

<snip>
Sorry Stu, I didn't answer your question. Yes, I used cracked grains for sure, I bought it that way last week.

Also, just on the topic of steeping grains, I'd like to buy them whole to keep them as fresh as I can, but I don't have a cracker or mill. But I've used a heavy rolling pin on roasted barley just straight on the benchtop a handful at a time and I thought it works rather well for that fairly small quantity, it only took a few seconds. So, my question is, are all or most steeping/ specialty grain malts as brittle and compliant as this?
If so, I'll just buy my grains (nb. not for mashing, just steeping) this way [edit: i.e. whole] and just crack them with the rolling pin as I need them. The malting and kilning process seems to make the whole grains fairly brittle, when we were on the farm and bought malted barley as stockfeed, it was pretty easy to run it through the grain grinder. It smelled delicious, BTW!

Obviously when I start mashing, I'll be looking at sourcing a mill but if I can get away without it for now, I'd be much happier.

 

[Gavo]

Only just spotted this thread. Man what a great recipe to choose and modify, even great just as it is.
I wouldn't worry to much about the steeping temp. From what I have read it should be fine. The Carafa TI is an interesting grain to use. I used 50 grams in both the Raceday Red and my Dogwood EKG. The race day red was much lighter. Both were great.

I couldn't see to much of a problem crushing specialty grains with a roller. After all this is basically what is done with a grain mill. Ahh.. grain mill.... my next toy.

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[RdeVjun]

Only just spotted this thread. Man what a great recipe to choose and modify, even great just as it is.
I wouldn't worry to much about the steeping temp. From what I have read it should be fine. The Carafa TI is an interesting grain to use. I used 50 grams in both the Raceday Red and my Dogwood EKG. The race day red was much lighter. Both were great.

I couldn't see to much of a problem crushing specialty grains with a roller. After all this is basically what is done with a grain mill. Ahh.. grain mill.... my next toy.

Cheers
Gavo.

Thanks gavo, thought you'd be pleased! And thanks for bumping up the post!
I'll be boiling the first, but now- paused, batch when I get some fermenter space back from the pair of lazy brews sitting in them on their loathesome spotty behinds (one's an agonisingly- slow toucan stout). The other new second steeped batch based on the Raceday Red is catching up with them though at a hellish pace, I may have to invest in more secondary cubes. I'm rather happy with it, but I won't tell you what form the rest of the LME took, you'll probably not speak to me again for potentially ruining what could've been a fantastic drop (my excuse- it was an experimental, testing, proof-of-concept batch! Note where this thread is posted...).
Digressing back on topic, only thing is, with whole specialty grains I'll be stuffed if I get some whole, go to crack it up and its a bit too tough with the rolling pin. The Cyclonic Whizz food processor seems to be a bit rugged, it completely pulverises a small fraction while leaving the rest totally unscathed- not a good day out for efficiency.
Oh, we'll know probably tomorrow if PM Kev's sponsorship of mills, urns, kettles and all sorts of expensive brewing kit is coming through as expected- fingers crossed! Hope so, if it does, it'll be time to . Then this will all be completely academic!

 

[Gavo]

now in the fermenter with 3.4kg of LME, some flavour and aroma Northern Brewer and that "go sick em" Nottingham.

but I won't tell you what form the rest of the LME took, you'll probably not speak to me again for potentially ruining what could've been a fantastic drop (my excuse- it was an experimental, testing, proof-of-concept batch! Note where this thread is posted...).

I think I have figured out where the LME came from.... lets see 1.7 x 2 = 3.4 .
Oh well at least there is some grain in there plus all malt and the Notto rather than the kit yeast. It will far surpass the standard kit brew.

Extensive scientific testing is extremely important to brewing and the resulting product must be disposed of in an appropriate manner .

Got to love the stimulus package for those of us who get it. The Marga mill sounds very good for the money. I would buy one myself apart from the fact that I have started to build a monster of a mill from scratch just for the hell of it.

Cheers
Gavo.

Cheers
Gavo

 

[RdeVjun]

Yep, think I'm busted- the saying I'm feeling right now goes something like "hoist by thine own petard". :lol:

Only one of those tins had any hops though, actually found some unhopped in that size, so it won't be outrageous. I'll keep you posted, Cheers!