Starter

[pmolou]

i've been given conflicting advice about making starters so im gonna get it cleared up

can you use cane sugar or dextrose to make a starter or must you use malt extract?

 

[barls]

malt is better for it

 

[pmolou]

malt is better for it

is this as it adds more body? and is dex still possible as i only use liquid malt and dont intend on opening it for my starter

 

[~MikE]

is this as it adds more body? and is dex still possible as i only use liquid malt and dont intend on opening it for my starter

you'll need more than just dextrose to get the yeast multiplying tho, such as nutrients and stuff that it gets from malt.

 

[Wasabi]

Also, the closer your starter is to your actual wort, the less stress the yeast undergoes when you pitch it.

Stressed yeast spend more time adjusting to their new environment, and so take a little longer to get started.

 

[Pennywise]

You should just go buy yourself a 1kg bag of DME if you'll only use it for starters, only cost about $8

 

[capretta]

i also remember reading somewhere that if yeast is in a dex/sugar only environment it damages their ability to uptake maltose once you are ready to pitch it into the wort. ive never heard of anyone using just sugar..

 

[pmolou]

cheers pity ive already chucked a heap of sugar in it but ill go get some malt asap noww

 

[rich_lamb]

i also remember reading somewhere that if yeast is in a dex/sugar only environment it damages their ability to uptake maltose

Yeah, that was probably "Principles of Brewing Science" by George Fix. Definitely worth a read IMHO.

You can use just dex for a starter and it will probably work OK but generally you want to be as good to your yeasties as you can - within reason, budget and convenience.
Theres some argument to suggest your starter wort should be somewhat like your beer wort as the yeasties produce different enzymes to deal with different sugars. I'm not entirely convinced, but haven't yet proved it either way.

I'd very much second the advice to just buy a bag of DME for making starters (and some nutrient). A heck of a lot of brewers do just that. But if you've started, you could either just stay the course, or build up a second iteration of your starter with better food.

 

[pmolou]

i ended up just boiling a litre of my old liquid yeasts and added to my yeast and far out after a day i had a glass jar explode and my pet bottles frothing like mad when realising CO2.

so anyone who has no dme just boil old yeasties and you'll have a huge starter

 

[TidalPete]

i ended up just boiling a litre of my old liquid yeasts and added to my yeast and far out after a day i had a glass jar explode and my pet bottles frothing like mad when realising CO2.

so anyone who has no dme just boil old yeasties and you'll have a huge starter

When I brew I usually save a couple of litres of wort in glass containers (Read scotch bottles) to use for my next starter but not when going from Stout to Pils for example (Dark to pale).
In that case I normally use LME except in an emergency when I have resorted to white sugar + 0.5 teaspoons of nutrient.
I have not noticed a discernible difference when doing this but it is not a practise I would make a habit of.

TP :beer:

 

[Brewtus]

I saw in a post somewhere that a cheap and easy nutrient is an unwanted yeast satchel killed with boiling water.

Can anyone with scientific knowledge confirm this as it seems a bit like soylent green.

 

[Bugglz]

I saw in a post somewhere that a cheap and easy nutrient is an unwanted yeast satchel killed with boiling water.

Can anyone with scientific knowledge confirm this as it seems a bit like soylent green.

I've alwasy assumed this to be the case, most yeast nutrient is basically just DAP (nitrogen source) + yeast extract.

 

[nick_lavender]

Hey,

I agree, a 1kg bag of dry malt extract will last a while and is perfect for starters, far better than dextrose!

I also add a little yeast nutrient!

The closer the starter make up to your wort the better, you can even add a little hops to help the yeast get use to the acids in them etc, or so I've heard!

Hope this helps!

 

[Stuster]

The closer the starter make up to your wort the better, you can even add a little hops to help the yeast get use to the acids in them etc, or so I've heard!

Not exactly. The starter should be around the 1030-1040 mark. You are growing yeast so it's best to provide an environment that stresses them the least. That gravity is apparently the best for doing that and encouraging growth. I also thought that adding hops was a good idea but recently read that it's not. The hops do tend to discourage bacterial growth, but also have the same effect on yeast, inhibiting their growth as well which is obviously not what you want. That assumes you can keep the starter clean which is important anyway. I'm sure it's not going to kill them though.

 

[bradsbrew]

I boiled up some honey and water to revive the yeast in a coopers PA tallie once. It worked and had the air lock on my bottle going off. I didnt use it straight away so I capped it and stored it in the fridge. When i did get back to it in a few weeks I poured the liquid on top into a glass had made a honey beer of sorts but I was too scared to use it. Which was probably a good thing. Is honey bad for making a starter? I am thinking it would open the door for infection?

 

[Stuster]

I don't think that the problem is the risk of infections (though that might be an issue) but just that there aren't many nutrients there for the yeast to grow. Honey and water (which is all you need for mead really) is a hard environment for yeast to grow in. Malt solution will provide lots of things they need, especially FAN (Free Amino Nitrogen) along with other trace elements.

 

[bradsbrew]

Is there any need to make a starter from a yeast cake if you have just drained the fermenter and have another fermenter full of wort and ready for yeast to be added. :unsure: I hope not because this is what I done yesterday.
I had the wort from my first AG i done on friday night waiting for yeast. So I drained off my fermented beer and scooped up a bit over a cup of the yeast cake on the bottom(with a sterile jug), gave the wort a good stir to aerate and then stirred in the cake.
Is this ok to do? Airlock was going off within 3hours and has slowed to a steady bloop today.

Cheers Brad

 

[Stuster]

Sounds perfect, bradsbrew. Good to use just some of the yeast cake as you did IMO. That quick start shows it was racing to be off again. Good stuff.

 

[mika]

I saw in a post somewhere that a cheap and easy nutrient is an unwanted yeast satchel killed with boiling water.

Can anyone with scientific knowledge confirm this as it seems a bit like soylent green.

It's better than nothing, but as I understand a proper yeast nutrient is well in front. The yeast is looking for some of the base minerals such as magnesium (can't remember the others ) to get it rolling. I have heard that the right mens multivitamin tablet is also an option.