Stangas - Western Australia

[Stangas]

Hey all...

Been brewing for about 15yrs now and have watched many trends come and go.

I have been using Cornelius kegs for about 12yrs, shortly after getting sick of cleaning bottles.
I have really only used extract brewing methods, but have tried many different methods over the years.

I am now about to take on all grain brewing with lab made enzymes.

SEBStar for the warming of the mash (20 - 80 degC - hold for 90mins)
SEBamyls for the cooling of the mash (after mash is at 65 degC and hold for 75min)

To do this I am planning on using the simple BIAB method with milled grain fresh from the paddock, not malted!

I am hoping to help and learn with this method and share my experience.

 

[MHB]

I'm going to suggest that as you have all the equipment required you also do a Malt BIAB in parallel.
Just pale malt, bitter the two the same and compare the results. Commercial exogenous enzymes have their uses but as a brewing method although they have been trying since the 1970's they have yet to find much favor in the industry.

One of the reasons is the time it takes, you wouldn't want to be heating at more than 1oC/minute, there's 1 hour, hold at 90oC gives us 2.5 hours, cooling will probably take at least 1/2 hour (could be faster or a lot slower unless you use a chiller) so 3 hours, mash at 65oC for 75 minutes takes us to 4-1/4 hours, lift the bag and heat to a boil, and boil for an hour about 1-1/2 hours takes it to 5-3/4 hours, you still have to chill and transfer so 6 hours being I think generous, close to double what a practiced malt brewer can do it in.
You will find that the amount and type of trub at the end of the boil will be different, probably a lot more of it and a lot harder to separate.
I also suspect that the beer wont taste as good, which really is why the enzyme production pathway isn't used all that much for beer.

In a high tech plant, the one big advantage is that it should be possible to make extremely pale beers, that would require very advanced fast boiling equipment and wort clarification (filter or centrifuge), well outside what most home brewers can be expected to have.
Another advantage is, if you look at the time, energy and water used across the whole malting and brewing process, it will probably be more economic, or at least heading toward being competitive, especially in a purpose built brewhouse.

One last point to consider is your Barley, you still want low protein "malting grade" barley, you might want to see that it is fully air dry before trying to mill it, be really handy to know the moisture content for your efficiency calculations.

Good luck - I find the range and power of the enzymes coming onto the market fascinating, I not trying to knock them, just remember that they aren't an easy fix, or even a cheap one. They have their limitations and disadvantages as well as their uses.
At the size and with the equipment we use I doubt you will get the beer you are looking for, but will be interested in the outcomes.
Mark

 

[Mardoo]

Sounds interesting. Look forward to hearing about your results!

 

[MHB]

I have tried to follow up on the enzymes you listed, it looks to me like they are both primarily Amylases, you will need a Glucanase and Protease.
The first step is really to get the starch gelatinised and available to the amylase to do this you will need to do what the maltster would otherwise be doing for you, breaking down the stuff that keeps all the starch scrunched up in little granules.
Looking at the blurb for the SEBstar, its just an alpha amylase so it will liquefy starch, if it can get at it.
SEBamyls looks like its a glucoamylase which will make lots of fermentable glucose out of larger solubilised starch.

I think you need to go back to the drawing board with this one, maybe learn a bit more about what happens during malting and mashing. If I was trying to make something with the two enzymes you have listed I would probably boil the snott out of the milled grain, then cool it back down to start the first enzyme, I don't think you are going to get beer with the plan you have.
Mark

 

[Stangas]

LOL... you make it sound so easy. Cheers heaps for the input, although I read it after I brewed this weekend gone.

I believe these enzymes were made for moonshining, which I do a heap of also. So mainly for corn.

I have made the first batch (wheat only) and your right with the timing, it is an all day affair.. but it was a fun day of mucking about in the shed.
The enzymes definitely made sugars.. It was so sticky it wasn't funny. And the iodine test proved I had no starch left.

I then boiled again after the steeping and added Saaz hops.

Final SG = 1.040

My fermenting fridge smells very sweet.. almost green.. but it is bubbling away nicely

There is no such thing as a bad beer, just some are better than others.

 

[MHB]

I suspect you are right it would be an effective process for making a wash for distilling (which it would be fun to talk about but that is band here).
I have a hunch it will finish very low possibly even under 1.000, mind you sugar is so cheap that there would be little point in spending a whole day and buying the enzymes if that's the direction you are heading.
Never doubted you would get sugar - just not so sure you will make good beer.

Will disagree on one point the world is full of bad beer, I home brew so I don't have to drink it!
Mark

 

[manticle]

There is absolutely such a thing as bad beer. Even terrible beer and life is too short to waste time on it.

 

[Stangas]

LOL

This is more experimentation than anything

I am more driven on the lack of availability of malted grain (and any home brew stuff for that matter) due to living in a small town. Improvisation is the mother of invention.
I also have a mate that grows barley on his farm commercially (massive farm) and we were getting drunk and talking about it.. Thought we would give it a go.

If it doesn't work, the enzyme will be used on corn for the banned subject.

I will continue with the extract brewing to keep my kegs full, and definitely give the malted all grain a go soon too.

 

[mr_wibble]

You could also experiment with malting your own barley.

The local rural traders was supposed to get some in for me to sow, maybe I should just get a bag of "perl barley" from the supermarket, see if it germinates.

 

[MHB]

Perl Barley has the husk and the germ removed it wont germinate.
Mark