Stalled - Repitching With Different Yeast?

[JaseH]

So I've got my first brew on the go at the moment, a Cascade Pale Ale kit. All was going well but after a couple of days it looks to have stalled at SG 1022. Some details if it helps.

Cascade Pale Kit
Brewcraft #15 Beer Enhancer
Hallertau Finishing hops (Teabag steeped in boiling water for 10min then thrown in FV)

Kit yeast pitched at ~23c on 08/11 OG about 1040 (made up to 21L)

24 hrs later it was bubbling away like crazy, good foam on top of the wort. I slowly brought the temp down to about 18-19 over the next couple of days.

By the 11/11 it went very quiet, SG read 1022.

I read this article which was handy:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...showarticle=130

I gave the FV a swirl to rouse the yeast but Yesterday(13/11) still no activity in the FV and the SG was still reading 1022, no foam on top of the wort anymore. I purchased a heat pad yesterday and have bought the temp back up to around 21-22 and gave the wort a gentle stir with a sterilised spoon. Doesn't appear to be any change this morning.

If there is still no change in the next day or so I'm thinking I will need to re-pitch some yeast. The question I have is it ok to re-pitch with a different yeast? I was thinking of repitching with US05 or should I track down some more of the Cascade kit yeast whatever that is?

 

[raven19]

I would look to rack it to a secondary vessel and raise the temp a further 1-2 degree.

Keep things sanitary as you have done thus far. Fingers crossed it drops a few more points.

 

[JaseH]

I would look to rack it to a secondary vessel and raise the temp a further 1-2 degree.

Keep things sanitary as you have done thus far. Fingers crossed it drops a few more points.

Hey Raven. I have limited equipment at the moment as I'm only just getting into it. I do have a 20L cube I may be able to use to rack it but am not sure if that would be suitable?

A couple of questions - do you mean rack it, leaving the settled yeast in the bottom of the FV and then just leave it to see if it drops further or re-pitch more yeast after racking? What is the purpose of racking it to another vessel? Apologies for the newb questions!

 

[raven19]

20L cube will be fine as long as its clean and sanitised.

Racking for me is using some plastic tube from the big green shed (or similar shop) and transferring beer/wort from fermentor A to Fermentor (or in your case Cube) B. With about 2-3L remaining, give fermentor A a swirl to loosen the trub/yeast and continue to transfer until everything have been racked into your Cube.

Hopefully the movement of the beer/wort and it agitation of the yeast cake will be enough to kick start it again. Leave cap on loosely maybe with some alfoil over the top of the lid. Krausen should be minimal as most of the fermentation is complete.

Not sure what your final gravity will be with that kit, however 1022 does seem high.

I would only add more yeast as a last resort.

 

[JaseH]

Got it up to 22c at the moment and after giving it a stir yesterday it looks to have dropped a couple of SG points to about 1019. Hopefully its kicked back in again, I'll monitor it and see how it goes.

 

[JaseH]

Well no luck unfortunately - after giving it a good stir and bumping the temp up to 22c it dropped a couple of points but has now been sitting at 1019 for the last 3 days. I'm assuming this still too high for it to have finished so am probably going to grab some US05 from my local brew shop and try re-pitching to get it down those last few gravity points.

Should I use the whole pack? Rehydrate it first?

 

[raven19]

Can't comment on whether the FG should be lower based on the kit in your OP, but I guess you could add more yeast - however if the current yeast cant chew down a 1040 beer further than 1022 I am wondering if fresh yeast would be able to do any better.

Maybe bottle a few off in plastic and keep them in a warmer spot and give them the squeeze test to check for carbonation whilst waiting for this next batch of yeast to hopefully ferment out your remaining wort.

 

[JaseH]

Thought I would post an update to this thread. After raising the temp and stirring up the yeast failed to kick things off again I followed your advice and racked it to another vessel.

About this time I also got my fermentation fridge and temp controller set-up so I've been able to keep a steady 23-24 degrees. I also took a fast ferment test sample to check against. After this the SG started slowly dropping again - when I say slowly I mean it has taken until yesterday to settle around 1010! Thats about 3 weeks since pitching the yeast!? I'm hoping to bottle it tonight, I know ideally I should leave it a few extra days but I really just wanted to get this one out of the way as a learning step so I could do a proper unhopped extract brew with a hop boil. Having said that it tastes quite good so far.

I have all the ingredients sitting here to for Neill's Centenarillo Ale, and will be using US05 this time so am hoping it ferments a bit quicker! Cant wait to kick it off.

 

[fergi]

Thought I would post an update to this thread. After raising the temp and stirring up the yeast failed to kick things off again I followed your advice and racked it to another vessel.

About this time I also got my fermentation fridge and temp controller set-up so I've been able to keep a steady 23-24 degrees. I also took a fast ferment test sample to check against. After this the SG started slowly dropping again - when I say slowly I mean it has taken until yesterday to settle around 1010! Thats about 3 weeks since pitching the yeast!? I'm hoping to bottle it tonight, I know ideally I should leave it a few extra days but I really just wanted to get this one out of the way as a learning step so I could do a proper unhopped extract brew with a hop boil. Having said that it tastes quite good so far.


f
I have all the ingredients sitting here to for Neill's Centenarillo Ale, and will be using US05 this time so am hoping it ferments a bit quicker! Cant wait to kick it off.

well after 3 weeks and down to 1010 its finished,generally some people like to test after a few days but i reckon after 3 weeks and 1010 your good to go,

next brew with the us05 try and keep the temp more constant, i always pitch at around 18 deg with us05 and keep it at that temp,
now you have a fermenting fridge it will be easy to control your temps. i always rehydrate my us05 in 250 ml of water'sterile" ie boiled and cooled to around 18/20 deg.

i use a glass jar which i spray with a sanitiser and then put 250 ml and yeast in, ,then put a small sheet of glad wrap over and gently swirl it a few times to mix and leave it for 15 minutes then toss into my wort.

fergi

 

[Steve@PMF82]

. i always rehydrate my us05 in 250 ml of water'sterile" ie boiled and cooled to around 18/20 deg.

i use a glass jar which i spray with a sanitiser and then put 250 ml and yeast in, ,then put a small sheet of glad wrap over and gently swirl it a few times to mix and leave it for 15 minutes then toss into my wort.

fergi

No disrespect intended at all, but i think the advice from the manufacture for rehydrating dry yeast should be followed to the letter, otherwise you are probably better off not doing it at all, especially for a newb.
I think better for people to start off doing the right thing.

cut and paste from fermentis PDF for US05

Re-hydrate the dry yeast into yeast cream in a stirred vessel prior to pitching. Sprinkle the dry
yeast in 10 times its own weight of sterile water or wort at 27C 3C (80F 6F). Once the
expected weight of dry yeast is reconstituted into cream by this method (this takes about 15 to
30 minutes), maintain a gentle stirring for another 30 minutes. Then pitch the resultant cream
into the fermentation vessel.
Alternatively, pitch dry yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of
the wort is above 20C (68F). Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the
yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes
and then mix the wort e.g. using aeration.

 

[fergi]

No disrespect intended at all, but i think the advice from the manufacture for rehydrating dry yeast should be followed to the letter, otherwise you are probably better off not doing it at all, especially for a newb.
I think better for people to start off doing the right thing.

cut and paste from fermentis PDF for US05

Re-hydrate the dry yeast into yeast cream in a stirred vessel prior to pitching. Sprinkle the dry
yeast in 10 times its own weight of sterile water or wort at 27C 3C (80F 6F). Once the
expected weight of dry yeast is reconstituted into cream by this method (this takes about 15 to
30 minutes), maintain a gentle stirring for another 30 minutes. Then pitch the resultant cream
into the fermentation vessel.
Alternatively, pitch dry yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of
the wort is above 20C (68F). Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the
yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes
and then mix the wort e.g. using aeration.
[/quoB,te]


point taken re manufacturers recommendation but as brewers we usually find an easier less complicated way to do things, just read the varied ways we all do the same thing here on AHB

i have done this for us05 on probably 50 occasions and never failed to work, dont make it too complicated for new brewers either.
cheers fergi

 

[JaseH]

Cheers thanks guys. I had planned to try and keep this brew at around 18c but after it stalled I had to raise the temp in an attempt to kick it off again. I suspect the 7gm sachet of yeast that came with the Cascade kit was a bit inferior.

Will definitely be keeping the next one cooler.

So "10 times its own weight in water", I guess that means about 110ml for an 11gm sachet?

 

[pcmfisher]

point taken re manufacturers recommendation but as brewers we usually find an easier less complicated way to do things, just read the varied ways we all do the same thing here on AHB

i have done this for us05 on probably 50 occasions and never failed to work, dont make it too complicated for new brewers either.
cheers fergi

Why not complicate things for new brewers even less and tell them to just sprinkle US05 in dry.
I've done it this way on 50 occasions and never had it fail to work.

 

[loikar]

Why not complicate things for new brewers even less and tell them to just sprinkle US05 in dry.
I've done it this way on 50 occasions and never had it fail to work.

Sprinke Dry Yeast = extended lag time
Hydrate Dry Yeast = Lag time
Hydrate yeast in some of your wort for 12 hours = Less Lag time
Make a proper Starter = a lot less lag time (a couple of hours)

If your sanitation is up to scratch, it's not a big issue really. Just sprinkle the **** on.
But, in the 48hrs while you're yeast is hydrating and slowly coming to life to take residence in your beer, some of the crusty **** that fell out of your face when you were peering into your fermenter is already throwing a party and shitting on your cashmere rug.


it comes down to yeast health.
throwing in some yeast that is already champing at the bit from a 2L starter is going to hit your wort running and have minimal stress or issues combating anything else in your beer.
sprinkling it on top means it has to do a lot more work to get up and going.

making a starter is no harder than making up a batch of powdered milk.

if you're that retarded, or just really don't give a ****, sprinkle the **** on.
it's still going to make beer.

BF

 

[manticle]

To add to the mess though - wort starters don't seem to be recommended for dried yeast.

 

[loikar]

To add to the mess though - wort starters don't seem to be recommended for dried yeast.

So there you go.

1. make a starter unless you're retarded or lazy
2. use a liquid yeast
3. you can't stop **** from falling out of your face.
4. who ******* cares?
5. Just sprinkle the dry **** in
6. you're making it from a can anyway
7. so it's not going to make it taste any better
8. please re-read this list omitting steps 1-3

BF

 

[JaseH]

I think I'll look up details on how to make a starter just coz I like this statement so much!

But, in the 48hrs while you're yeast is hydrating and slowly coming to life to take residence in your beer, some of the crusty **** that fell out of your face when you were peering into your fermenter is already throwing a party and shitting on your cashmere rug.

But being my first time steeping specialty grains and doing a hop boil with extract, I'll probably try keep things simple and just hydrate the yeast. I'm pretty good with sanitation I think.

 

[loikar]

But being my first time steeping specialty grains and doing a hop boil with extract, I'll probably try keep things simple and just hydrate the yeast. I'm pretty good with sanitation I think.

Seriously mate,

If you're going to all the trouble of 'upgrading' to steeping and a mini-boil to improve your packet brews, why **** around with a dried yeast?
get a liquid yeast smack pack and smack it when you wake up on brew day.
at least then the little yeasty fuckers will be up scratching their arse looking for something to eat by the time you're ready to pitch.

BF