Speed Cameras

[Thirsty Boy]

I've been done for speeding that many times I pretty much have a direct debit to civic compliance.
I got my first ticket for speeding within 10 days of obtaining my P's towing a boat coming into Ararat. (Funny you arent allowed to tow on your Ls but get your Ps and start towing a boat, van what ever with no supervision...)
I've been clocked a few times for having a heavy right boot including doing 140 in an 80 zone. I did my time on two feet and a heart beat and I realise that at times I have been known to drive dangerously - particularly when I was younger and had a car full of mates. I wouldnt think anything of it to rip up the hand brake at 60+kph to drop a u-banger in traffic with 3 mates in the car. Yep sure its was dangerous - but I wasnt speeding...

I pay attention to the road though not my speedo. I have two crashes - one was rolling a 4wd on a badly corigated road at under 30kph where the car was thrown off the road and into a spoon drain. The other was a car in front took off then slammed on the brakes at a give way interstection - I was looking to my right and creeping up to the intersection - yep both my fault and I've learned from both crashes.

Im so paranoid about getting flashed on eastlink here in melbourne with their 50 billion speed cameras and continual hwy patrol that I avoid the ******* thing. When I do go on it my missus is continually at me about paying attention to the road because I wander all over the road cause Im so concerned about speeding. You could EASILY do 140+kph on this road safely but most of the time everyone is on 90kph cause everyone is so shit scared of getting flashed.
I do an average of 1000ks per week which for someone who doesnt drive for a living or live in a remote location is a reasonable amount of ks.

I have a great deal of doubt that speeding causes crashes. I believe that concentration lapses (mostly due to fatigue), boredom, poor vehicle maintenance and drivers driving beyond their ability cause more accidents than speed. Then there are the drivers under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol. I'd put my lefty on more crashes happen because of people getting too close to the vehicle in front.
People blame too many crashes cause by dangerous driving on speed - there is a MASSIVE difference.
You can do 60kph in a 60kph zone and be driving dangerously - not driving to the conditions etc. NO speed camera will get you for this. But you can be doing 140kph on the hume with no traffic around cruising along and you'll get flashed - but your alert, driving to the conditions etc. I'd be my arse that the guy driving dangerously but within the speed limit is more likely to have a crash or hit someone than the bloke cruising along @140kph on the freeway.
I'd bet more accidents are caused by people falling asleep at the wheel etc than by doing 140 up the freeway. As for the arguement that not all vehicles can do 140 on a freeway safely - get the pieces of shit off the road! Obviously there are some vintage vehicles that cant do such speeds but most of those drivers would be more content taking the back roads and going through the towns that are bypassed by freeways.

I DONT like speed cameras - they DONT change a drivers state of mind/attitude. You get pulled up by a police officer and you know you've done the wrong thing and you become concious of your speed. You get done by a speed camera and you dont even realise for 10+ days. You dont change your driving habbit/attitude you get a letter in the mail and you just get pissed off with revenue raising.
You watch places where known fixed speed cameras are. BANG every on is on the brakes then back on the gas 50 meters up the road. This upsets the flow of traffic and leads to more nose to tail accidents.
What about the bloke and his missus driving along in their VC commodore with rust everywhere a bent tail shaft, leaking hub seals and unbalanced unroadworthy tyres. Even doing the speed limit he is fricken dangerous and if he does have a car the structural intergrity of the car is likely so bad that all the vehicles occupants will be killed even in a fairly low speed impact.

Obviously I realise that speed cameras give the ability to police more areas than would be possible using TMU vehicles and officers but fixed cameras are a wank.

Mate, if you are by your own admission incapable of driving in a coherrent fashion and simultaneously paying attention to how fast you are going, then you are so shit a driver that the sooner you get your next series if fines and are removed from the road, the better I'll feel about myself and the people I care about being on that road. The problem with the road laws isn't speed limits and cameras to enforce them - its that people like you are allowed to have a license in the first place.

 

[pk.sax]

Besides bla bla bla... I can bet half a left nut that if you put a majority of Aussies that drive on our freeways on some of the better freeway systems around the world that allow higher speeds, they would be damn dangerous because they don't ever learn how to handle a vehicle at above 120 km/h (max) over any distance.

Yes indeed, most speedsters out there scare me. They just don't have the practice of driving at those speeds properly, they do it in a) panic B) boredom c) hurry etc.... None of which are safe.

For the extreme reliance we have on our roads to get anywhere, we have really crappy training systems backed up by a majorly punitive road law system, bad new car purchase scene (with insurance costs for newly licensed drivers, except for aami...) and roads that should be in a lot of cases signed higher speed than they are because the legal limit kicks in and then the local police find it funny that they can exploit that for revenue rather than concentrate on more real safety issues.

 

[komodo]

So let me get this straight TB Your saying that someone who gets flashed at 106kph in a 100kph zone on a 4 lane toll road is a menace? Remembering that untill 2003 the ADRs stated that speedos could have upto a 10% error Thats since been changed and speedos can only now read that your travelling faster than you actually are - but there are plenty of pre 2003 vehicles on the road.

Dont get me wrong when I was younger - yes I was. But then you have to look at driver training etc. I'd been driving since I was 13 years old so I had shed loads of confidence. Problem with current driving tests is that basically thats all they are a confidence test. If you can confidently do a 3 point turn and drive a manual car in light traffic - here you go heres your licence.

I learnt WAY more doing a 1 day murcotts driver training course than I learnt in 2 years having my learners. The only thing I wish is that I'd done the murcotts course earlier (ie before I got my Ps) as the information that was taught there would have made me a much safer driver. Im not talking about the actual driver training - because really to a certain degree that is a bit of wank. No the theory side of things is really where the lessons are. Real world statistics drummed into you in an environment where you cant just "flick the channel".

The other thing is that (And I dont know if things have changed with the introduction of green P's here in vic) that P plate drivers should be given an instant suspension. When I did my P's I had 12 points to play with and I had a reasonable paying job. couple of points here few $ there what did I care? I know they have since changed it to 5 points in 12 months however I still think this is too leanient.

I deserved to loose my licence when I did - and I'll be honest I've learned my lesson. I don't blatantly speed, Im not dropping handbrake turns, ripping skids etc. Things that proper driver training would possibly have swayed me from doing. That said - boys will be boys. Especially those of us who have grown up around cars (I had my first car before I could drive). Also vicroads should IMO encourage people to get CAMS licences etc and provide information on how to go about having legal fun in cars. Indicate that public roads arent the place to be working out your reaction times and quater mile times - save it for the track with information on where tracks are located and how you go about getting your car down the quater.

In saying that I do think that fixed speed cameras on freeways are bollocks. Red light cameras - yes, fixed speed cameras in residential and built up areas - yes, distance over time cameras - no, mobile speed cameras - yes. Fixed speed cameras on freeways are NOT a safety device they are purely revenue raising. Sure they dont raise revenue when you dont speed - but when your doing a trip from say frankston to stringvale road along eastlink sitting on 100kph as best you can on undulating roads (I'm sorry I dont have cruise control - and at near $1800 to have a decent kit retrofitted which still wont stop the vehicle running away on down hill stretches I'm not interested in fitting it) and you get flashed doing 106kph coming under the dandenong bypass thats bullshit straight out. I would much rather the drivers around me be paying attention to the road than making sure they are "bang on" the speed limit.

The other thing is how many of us have been on a free way realised that the exit we need is coming up but we're in the right lane - the left lane is clear in front but there is a car next to you and several care behind both in your lane and the two left lanes. You dont brake and mess up the flow of traffic - you give the right peddal the boot and get across. Oh shit you just got flash for cashed at 111kph by a fixed speed camera...
Now tell me whats more dangerous - stoming on the loud pedal for 150-200 meters and keeping the flow of traffic going. OR slowing down all traffic trying to merge into a full lane pissing people behind you off cause they dont know what your doing and they jump into another lane driving past you giving you a mouth full?

The last speeding infringement I got was done at 66kph in an area where they have recently dropped the speed limit from 80 down to 60. Thats the first infringement I've had in 2+ years the one before that was 85kph in a roadworks zone with a reduced (from 100) limit of 80 kph - at 2am with no road works going at the time. Yes in both instances I was actually in the wrong and deserved the fines I recieved. In neither case would I suggest I was a "menace" just simple acts of a.) not slowing down fast enough for a revised speed limit. b.) being negligent at 2am and letting my reduced speed creep back up. The officer that pulled me up even commented on the fact that I had slowed to the correct speed limit but slowly increased my speed through the reduced limit area. Shit happens I paid my $140odd fine and I'm more cautious in reduced limit areas (more than I can say for a lot of drivers who seem to have a love affair with high beams and horns in such areas...). These are perfect examples of how cameras and TMU work effectively. Fixed speed cameras on freeways DO NOT WORK at reducing the road toll and improving traffic safety.

Have you ever done any long distance driving? Melbourne to darwin? melbourne to perth etc? you cant honestly think Im going to believe that you sat "johnny on the limit" the whole way and didn't at all get tempted at all to just slightly push a little harder on that right pedal? I know last time I drove to perth I sat on pretty much 110-120kph the whole time and I even passed some hwy patrol vehicles at the upper of these speeds. Difference being that the hwy patrol guys take a note of if what you are doing is actually dangerous or not - something a speed camera cannot do. If I was doing 120kph and overtaking everything in site with oncomming traffic I have no doubt those guys would book me. But open road with no one in sight either direction they know the biggest danger to me or anyone else on the road is hitting wild camels or big roos or tourists driving on the wrong side of the road ( ).

There is a difference between someone "innocently" exceeding the speed limit slightly and someone blatantly speeding &/or driving dangerously.
Of course everyone is entitiled to their opinion and thats mine

 

[Thirsty Boy]

No, in dont think that someone who gets the occasional speeding fine for minorly exceeding the speed limit is a menace, thats not what i said. I said that if you are so bad a driver that you are unable to both maintain a speed within the limit and simultaneoudly drive in a safe manner... That makes you a menace.

"Im so paranoid about getting flashed on eastlink here in melbourne with their 50 billion speed cameras and continual hwy patrol that I avoid the ******* thing. When I do go on it my missus is continually at me about paying attention to the road because I wander all over the road cause Im so concerned about speeding."

And as quoted above, you said quite clearly that you weren't capable of that. Anyone who even comes close to being skilled enough to be considered a good driver, can do easily what you say you cannot do. Otherwise you certainly are confident about your driving ability, and so is every single abysmally bad driver i have ever encountered.

Everyone does 90 on eastlink because they are scared of getting a fine for speeding huh? ... But you also say quite clearly that fixed speed cameras are incapable of changing people's mindset... And then provide us with an excellent example of speed cameras doing exactly what they are supposed to do - causing everyone to drive at below the speed limit.

Your problems with speed cameras seem to mostly stem from your inability to control your car and its speed correctly - perhaps you working on that might be a more practicable solution than changing the laws to accomodate your lack of skill.

 

[Clutch]

Just buy a motorbike with an Eclipseplate.*







*I actually don't advocate this. Really.

 

[Pennywise]

The speed argument is pointless, the main point (IMO) is that everyone else on the road is not expecting you to fly by them at 160+ k's an hour, THAT is the dangerous part, not how fast YOU"RE going, but what others on the road are expecting, you to follow the laws of the road. I reckon the speed laws are there because they know how many useless pricks are on the road, and most of them simple can't handle a car at any speed, let alone 100+, FFS, half of them can't even turn a ******* corner properly.

 

[Malted]

FFS, half of them can't even turn a ******* corner properly.

Man that shits me how so many people must think that staying in their lane is optional! The problem is I reckon these sort of people just don't think at all.

 

[komodo]

^Exactly.
If the freeways were 140 and every one was doing 140 there would be no issue. But when the freeway is 100 kph and someone comes flying up at 140 people are making lane change decisions based on the flow of traffic being 95-<105kph. Obviously you wouldnt make suburban freeways 140kph but major interstate links like the hume could easily carry traffic at 140 kph. From memory these days on the hume you dont even pass through a town at all this side of the boarder.

If the fixed speed cameras were set at say 115ks (on 100kph motorways) but there were regular TMU patrol cars with mobile radar you would get better public response - and likely make a bigger impact. Someone doing 160 up the freeway isnt concerned about a few speeding fines - they know when they get done its minimum 12 months (way to lenient IMO).
Seriously up the fines for all I care $140 is a piss in the ocean really comparitive to the cost of care for someone in the alfred etc - make them $300+ but put a bigger TMU presence out there!
People could plod along at 100kph with no fear that if their vehicle runs away down a hill or they get a touch heavy on the gas they are goin to get fined. You'd still get the drivers blatantly speeding with the speed cameras and the regular TMU presence would actually make an impact and the TMU officers can make a practical decision to weather the driver they just locked on was speeding or just trying to travel safely out of the way of other road users.
A bit of driver education one chosing the correct lane to travel in might be handy too - and how to merge on to a motorway, it freaks me out how many people still almost come to a stop to get onto a freeway - Victoria would have to be the worst state of all that I've travelled to for this (I've not been to QLD so I cant comment). Approach the motorway on the on ramp pick your merge point and drive into it at the speed of the traffic flow - its not rocket science! Yet how many freeway crashes happen at freeway entrances...

The other problem with cameras is how many of us have been asked to take someone elses points for a couple of hundred bucks? You can't do that when an officer pulls you up.
Also Twelve points is also a LOT of points. Thats 12 offences over 3 years at 3-9kph over the limit. Even then you just get a 6 or 12 month "good behavious bond" Thats a lot of blokes crossing the road with a pizza getting messed up. Should be some kind of scale where a one off incident at 3-9kph is 1 point a second offence in 12 months is 3 points etc. 10-17 (i think thats the next break?) should be 3 points for a one off incident then 30 day suspension of licence. 17-25kph 30 day suspension second offence in twelve months 3 month suspension. if no second offence is recorded in the 12 months then it reverts back to the minimum again.
You'd make a way bigger impact on the road toll / safety awareness by inconveniencing people than your $1540 worth of 11x $140 one point fines over 3 years is ever going to make.

 

[komodo]

Man that shits me how so many people must think that staying in their lane is optional! The problem is I reckon these sort of people just don't think at all.

Pfft bikes on the reefton spur are the worst. I've not got one 'yet', but dads got two - both realising they are too hot around the corner dropping their bikes - one smashed a mag wheel on his rangie classic to pieces. Another mate got one dropped his bike into my mates trailer snapped a beam axle. Save it for the track boys. I've come across a few where a bunch of guys are picking up a mate whos dropped a bike. I realise accidents happen - but fark!

 

[pk.sax]

Man that shits me how so many people must think that staying in their lane is optional! The problem is I reckon these sort of people just don't think at all.

hahahaha.. more people I know would turn into the next lane than do a controlled tight right hand turn at the lights. Lets not even talk about Left hand turns at any speed whatsoever if there isn't a slip lane. Majority of people just do it dead slow and do not increase their revs through the turn to maintain momentum. Pretty much a joke how it is, they could ditch that extra year of P's in favour of compulsory driving skill training (the kind taught in advanced driving courses) at the end of your L's, would teach people to handle and control their cars a bit better, weed out some of the itchy nervous types.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

I give every speed camera the forks, just in case they get me.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I got up to 110kph on the back rd to coffs.... does this mean I should be dead cause I went over 100kph, and speeding will kill me

 

[drsmurto]

I got up to 110kph on the back rd to coffs.... does this mean I should be dead cause I went over 100kph, and speeding will kill me

It increases the chances. Hence speed limits. :icon_cheers:

 

[Zizzle]

It increases the chances. Hence speed limits. :icon_cheers:

So does drinking, so we should all stop that too right?

 

[Pollux]

I got up to 110kph on the back rd to coffs.... does this mean I should be dead cause I went over 100kph, and speeding will kill me

I hit 60km/h in a 50 zone at 3am driving to work the other morning.............It's a miracle I survived.....

 

[komodo]

Whats the criteria for setting speed limits? There are some god aweful single lane roads that are 100kph and some brilliant multilane roads that are 70kph?
Then theres things like major link roads that remain unsealed with no signed limit (ie 100kph - though most of the time you'd be lucky to see 60kph because of the condition of the road)
And now the monash where it used to be 100kph almost the whole way upto the tunnel is now down to 80 and regularly down to 60 even though all the widening road works are completed?

 

[Goofinder]

A bit of driver education one chosing the correct lane to travel in might be handy too - and how to merge on to a motorway, it freaks me out how many people still almost come to a stop to get onto a freeway - Victoria would have to be the worst state of all that I've travelled to for this (I've not been to QLD so I cant comment). Approach the motorway on the on ramp pick your merge point and drive into it at the speed of the traffic flow - its not rocket science! Yet how many freeway crashes happen at freeway entrances...

Have you not been to SA? I've seen people come to a complete stop at the very end of the on ramp on a 110 km/h freeway. Not just slowed down, actually stopped. Around Adelaide at intersections with long slip lanes (enough to get up to 80 km/h easily) it's standard practice to drive to the end, stop, then pull out when the lights have gone red and stopped the traffic coming past. No one moves over if there's someone trying to merge and the right lane is free. I can't imagine what it would be like if we had more than 2.5 freeways here.

 

[Dave70]

Happy?

http://smh.drive.com.au/roads-and-traffic/...0727-1hzcz.html

 

[Malted]

Have you not been to SA? I've seen people come to a complete stop at the very end of the on ramp on a 110 km/h freeway. Not just slowed down, actually stopped. Around Adelaide at intersections with long slip lanes (enough to get up to 80 km/h easily) it's standard practice to drive to the end, stop, then pull out when the lights have gone red and stopped the traffic coming past. No one moves over if there's someone trying to merge and the right lane is free. I can't imagine what it would be like if we had more than 2.5 freeways here.

Yeah yeah funny as shit isn't it!

 

[pk.sax]

Speed and time are relative

Ride to work