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Sodium Perc Ruined My Beer

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iralosavic

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Just tasted my xmas lager to test carbonation level and almost vomitted! The memory of the taste is almost making me vomit now.

Perhaps my filter cleaning techniques suck!? Here's what I did:

1. Filter was soaking in sodium perc since last use, so I rinsed it under hot water for ages, then submerged it in fresh hot water for a while.
2. I ran hot water from a clean keg through the outlet into a keg that had just a few litres of sodium perc in the bottom.
3. I ran sanitiser through the in into an empty keg.
4. I emptied the sanitiser keg and prepared it to receive the beer and filtered as anyone would.

The only thing I can think of is that the above was insufficient at rinsing the sodium perc out of the filter or that during step 2. the receiving keg pressure caused back flow and mixed the two solutions causing ineffective rinsing...

The most confusing and ironic thing is that the filtered beer is still cloudy and in no way looks crystal clear as you would expect from a .5 absolute filter.

I'm so disappointed as it is a real struggle to find/justify the time to brew and to lose an entire batch this way costs me a lot more than just the $30 of ingredients.


Any ideas? Any better suggestions for filter cleaning?
 

Bada Bing Brewery

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Mate that's shit luck. I have been filtering for awhile but am tending not to bother anymore. The lagers generally clean themselves up with time, and to be honest the filtering procedure shits me to tears.......
Sorry to be of little help.

Was this the 34/70 brew??
cheers
BBB
 

labels

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I use filters too. 1um washable cartridge.

I soak it in a solution of filterd water with phosphoric acid added to about 2.3 ph (a few drops). In winter it stays there until I need it next, about every 6 weeks, changing the solution twice more. In summer, once I'm satisfied it's clean enough I stand it up in the hot garage where it dries out quickly.

Phosphoric acid occurs naturally in beer so any residual will not harm your brew and it doesn't harm the filter.

But nappy san? good for soaking stainless steel stuff but not filters. In any case how much is a filter cartridge? I think I pay about $12.00 or thereabouts.

=-Steve=-
 

Florian

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You haven't told us what the beer actually tastes like, which would help determining where the taste might come from.

Star San is known to leave beer cloudy even after filtering, it's always advisable to get as much out of your filter and keg as possible.

EDIT: Labels, it sounds like he used pure sodium percarbonate which is perfectly fine. Napisan only contains 35% of sod perc or thereabouts.
 

2much2spend

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would the sod percrb eat in to the filter medium?

i dont filter but im thinking real hard for some more delicate beers
 

iralosavic

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Yep it was the 34/70 beer; at least the yeast now has a second life courtesy of an Oktoberfest I made yesterday.

The filtering procedure shits me to tears too haha I'd be inclined to lager alone if I had the fridge space and the back supply of full kegs to wait long enough.

Yep, pure sodium percarbonate and starsan are all I used. The question is, how do you get a no rinse sanitiser out of a filter without reintroducing the possibility of infection? It's designed to be the last thing to come into contact with the subject.

The taste is like extremely salty, but not in a "this would be pleasant if it weren't so overpowering" kind of way like salt does, but more in a "chemical overload" kind of way. I really don't know how to explain it. The smell of the beer is more like the smell of my cube when its soaking with sodium perc than a beer, but the beer element to it makes the overall smell even worse!

EDIT: it should probably be noted that I've had a fever for the past couple of days and probably some kind of infection affecting my smell and taste, however, this would only exagerate the smell or change it slightly. I can still taste and smell other things and know that they are as they should be, including Stephano's Pilsner, which deserves a shameless plug as it's great.
 

brend0n

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Sorry to hear ur bad luck, but I have a question, how and what do you use to filter beer?
 

Nick JD

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Soda ash. Yum.

I soak my filter in starsan and then flush it with a few liters of cold tap water through the IN and then through the OUT. Works fine.
 

Wolfy

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The title of this thread is rather dramatic, given how many people use Sodium percarbonate products for cleaning HB gear, however, I think it should be more accurate if it was "Poor procedures ruined my beer". Sodium percarbonate breaks down (fairly quickly) into Hydrogen peroxide (which is a gas that escapes or gets turned into water) and sodium carbonate ('Soda ash') - which is essentially the filter has been soaking in for a long period.
 

Hippy

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Shit my filter is soaking in sodium perc right now. better go and rinse it out.
 

kelbygreen

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used to filter and its a pain I think. I drink my beer my dad drinks it when they come down once a year but most I know only drink mega swill and wont try it! Dad loves it not filtered as its like the cask beer in UK he drank as its non filtered, low carb and bit warmer lol

each to there own I like my beers unfiltered and I think it adds a bit more to them and they clear out on there own anyway so it isnt a major thing
 

dmac80

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I tend to plunge the filter into warm to hot water a few times to rinse out the napisan. Repeat a couple of times just to be sure, if you don't see napisan like bubbles in the water when you plunge it in and out, it's rinsed.
Cheers
 

Florian

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You say you're sick, you haven't been clearing your nose with a salt water solution by any chance?

As for the filter, I leave mine soaking in PBW for weeks until I need it (after the last use I change the PBW solution once after a day or so), then rinse it with water and soak it in a Star San solution for a few minutes. Then discard the Star San and leave the filter upside down in it's housing while I get everything else sorted, which gets rid of most of the residue. Then I just push some Co2 through the filter which usually pushes out heaps more of Star San solution. If you do this you shouldn't get any cloudy beer provided you cleared your keg of any remaining Star San.

I reckon you must have somehow had heaps of sod perc in your receiving keg if that's what it tastes like, possibly through back flow through unequal pressures as you suspect.

Not sure how to salvage the beer though, sorry.
 

Droughtmaster

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i dont filter but i use sodium percarbonate for cleaning .
only thing is if u can taste it u didnt rince it.
simple.
i use use it every brew for clean up and have never ever had a problem it washes away nice and clean every single time. just my experience
 

Ross

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Why are you blaming the filtering process? Did you taste the beer just before you filtered? Could well be from filtering, but unless you've made a huge error somewhere in the process it's unlikely to be causing what you are describing. Beer still cloudy, sounds more like an infection to me & I wouldn't be sticking another beer on the yeast cake until I was certain what the problem was.

cheers Ross
 

iralosavic

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It tasted fine before I transferred it to the keg. I know infections take on many different forms, but I'd never expect salty as hell. It could be a combination of the two, although that does leave a big question mark next to why I didn't detect any off flavours from the fermenter.

No, I didn't gargle or get salt up my nose lol

And yes the title is dramatic on purpose - but I do quickly move on to blame my own process. I've used sodium perc for just about every cleaning job in the brewery for years and will continue to do so.
 

Nick JD

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My filter uses 12mm lines, which fit over the nozzle of my long laundry tap outlet (old school one for wringer washing machine I think). This lets me blast it with cold tap water to back flush the yeast and to flush cleaners and sanitisers.

I don't think "dunking" is very effective (or affective) for cleaning filters.

Set up your filtering system to connect to a tap, and back flush through the OUT after filtering and cleaning.
 

iralosavic

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My filter uses 12mm lines, which fit over the nozzle of my long laundry tap outlet (old school one for wringer washing machine I think). This lets me blast it with cold tap water to back flush the yeast and to flush cleaners and sanitisers.

I don't think "dunking" is very effective (or affective) for cleaning filters.

Set up your filtering system to connect to a tap, and back flush through the OUT after filtering and cleaning.

That sounds like the easiest and most effective way to go, but mine has barbs to suit 8mm beer line, so I don't know how I'd achieve that - perhaps an adaptor of some kind.
 

tinnyhaha

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I also use a sodium percarbonate product for sanitising my filters and my process is pretty much like everyone elses.
Although I'll only soak overnight (unless I forget).
For rinsing, I boil a 10 litre pot of tap water with the lid on for 10 minutes , or so.
I leave it to cool for about 30 minutes without removing the lid. In the meanwhile I use 2 flask bungs (one with gas line through the centre) to seal the ends of the filter cartridge and then blow CO2 inside for a few seconds.
After that I throw the cartridge in the pre boiled water for a soak, repeat the CO2 process, place the cartridge in a sealed freezer bag, and freeze it until 15 minutes before use.
Another thought that comes to mind is that the sodium percarbonate must be thoroughly dissolved in hot water at a rate of 1 tablespoon per 5 litres of water before immersing the cartridge.

Cheers
 

Nick JD

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That sounds like the easiest and most effective way to go, but mine has barbs to suit 8mm beer line, so I don't know how I'd achieve that - perhaps an adaptor of some kind.
Pretty sure bunnings have 8-12mm plastic adaptors. Just need a little bit of 12mm hose.

When you're backflushing, watch the water coming out the IN until it's running clear. Uses a lot of water though.
 

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