Single Malt Wash

[drsmurto]

Mate has a setup that magically turns low alc solutions into higher alc solutions.

We have talked about doing a single malt whiskey

So, plan is to make a 10-12% 'beer' using JW trad. Mash at 66. No mash out. 15 min boil to get the hot break and kill any nasties and then chill straight to the fermenter. Pitch a big healthy yeast.

Question is - what yeast to use?

Was thinking either Nottingham or US-05 as i dont have any liquid yeasts that are designed for big beers.

Unless someone in Adelaide is willing to give me a sample of one of the belgians or even 1728 (scottish ale)?

 

[newguy]

Don't skip the mashout as it will get help to get more sugar out of the grain (that's the goal, isn't it?). Use a neutral yeast like US-05 or Wyeast 1056. If you can't get either, use Nottingham if it's handy but keep the temperature low (16-18ish) to minimise esters and higher alcohol formation.

Don't use a Belgian strain. They produce way too many higher alcohols (fusels) and phenols. What you're planning will only concentrate them, and that won't be pleasant. Same goes for the Scottish strain as it produces way too much diacetyl. I can't imagine how concentrated diacetyl would taste.

I take it you know the procedure? Throw away the "head" and "tail" and only keep what comes during the middle - between what first comes out (the head) and the sputtering end (the tail). From what I've read, the head & tail contains a lot of nasty stuff that you really don't want to ingest.

Good luck. :super:

 

[geoffd]

I know very little on the subject but have a few questions.
If you're distilling, why mash at 66? I would think you should mash at 60 to make it as fermentable as possible.
I would still do a 1 hour boil to remove DMS.
Do you know how much of the beer to add back to flavour the spirit & does it need to be filtered before you distill? (i'm thinking you might have yeast autolysis in the mash after the distill)

 

[KingPython]

Can't you use a turbo yeast and get it fermented within 2 days? You could also order some peat or distilling? malt from craftbrewer as well.

 

[bakkerman]

Would not recommend turbo yeasts, I find they require carbon filtering after "condensing".

Looking at craftbrewer i do see they have an Eau de vie yeast. I would like to try that once to see how that pans out.

 

[drsmurto]

Thanks for the responses, particularly reminding me of some of the 'added bonuses' that come with scottish and belgian yeasts.

Will make sure i have plenty of US-05, prob easiest to collect a yeast cake of it and wash it a few times.....

As for the distillation part, i figure the small amount of chemistry knowledge i possess should see me thru that part of the process

As for mash temp - would have thought that making a normal beer by mashing in the normal range would carry thru more of the malt character to the final product.

Mash out - wont be able to fit the extra volume of water in. I can do a 65/72 combo with boiling water to get the extra temp out and sparge with slightly hotter water than normal (i batch sparge)

DMS isnt an issue when you distil the final product!

Add back to flavour it? Was planning on maybe adding some oak to it after but not worry about any essences.

 

[Bizier]

Maybe charred oak Doc?

 

[Barge]

I'd skip the JW and go with TF Golden Promise. That'd have to make a good scotch!

 

[drsmurto]

Now i am really stuck, the Scottish heritage in me wants me to use a Scottish grain but the same heritage wants me to take the cheaper malt option....

Charred oak..... mmmmm.

Going to keep the first one simple and then look at adding peated malt etc later down the track.

 

[KingPython]

This reminds me of the Simpson's episode where Homer is making bath tub '12 year Old Scotch' and 'Cognac' in his basement :lol:

 

[bigholty]

The ol' magic condenser eh? I know Voosher used to speak of some concoctions he'd make of a strength unatainable by mere yeast alone......
There is a website (I'll PM you) that has HEAPS of info. It has a section specifically on what yeasts people use to make various washes, so they can extract the 'essential oils' from their malted barley...... h34r:

 

[Quintrex]

The ol' magic condenser eh? I know Voosher used to speak of some concoctions he'd make of a strength unatainable by mere yeast alone......
There is a website (I'll PM you) that has HEAPS of info. It has a section specifically on what yeasts people use to make various washes, so they can extract the 'essential oils' from their malted barley...... h34r:

I'd thoroughly recommend at least a 1 hour boil as it is necessary to break down the protein as this can cause foaming in the distillation which will come over with the distillate if your not careful, um or so i've heard!

I'd probably mash low and use a champagne yeast or equivalent, the malt character from unfermentables won't be volatile (i don't think), so go as fermentable as possible.

Q

 

[Barge]

This reminds me of the Simpson's episode where Homer is making bath tub '12 year Old Scotch' and 'Cognac' in his basement :lol:

kaboom...'oh, excuse me dear. must've been that bean I had for dinner'

 

[geoffd]

I thought by distilling, you would end up with pure ethanol (essentially vodka) after the first 50ml or so of Methanol (DO NOT DRINK) & a portion of the wash is added back to flavour & diluted with water to get the desired ABV. Hence my reasoning that you would want to filter the yeast out before the distillation, otherwise the yeast would be cooked in the the wash & ruin the flavour so you couldnt use it to flavour the ethanol. Methanol comes off at 60 degrees as far as I know, while ethanol's flash point is 80 degrees, that's why the methanol comes out first. I agree with the low mash idea, high mash only creates more body, not more flavour. I think the flavour is comming from the husk not the starch.

 

[newguy]

From my high school distillation portion of grade 11 chemistry (which was a long time ago), I thought that methanol boils at 82C while ethanol boils at 84C?

 

[reviled]

You can buy malt whiskey kits, peated malt is a must!! Dont know about the dextrose required with this kit tho?

http://www.haurakihomebrew.co.nz/product_i...roducts_id=1105

 

[drsmurto]

Methanol boils at 64.7C, ethanol at 78.3C. FWIW - Flash point is VERY different to boiling point

Would have thought by using a good yeast (ie. not turbo) the amount of methanol produced is minimal but standard practice in distillation of anything is to throw away the first liquid that comes off. Of course, i am used to distillation in a lab where i have a thermometer to monitor the temp of the distillate not to mention vigreux columns of various lengths.

I have it on good authority that some/most whiskey manufacturers dont do any boil as its being distilled straight away.

Having crunched the numbers further it does seem silly not to do a normal length boil, if only to get more of the sugars from the malt.

Had a few PMs from people for the homedistillers forum. Plenty of info there.

FJ - very interested in the idea of adding some of the fermented 'beer' back after distilling. Plan was the ferment, crash chill and hit with gelatine. Dont fancy the idea of distilling yeast cake!

 

[Frank]

When were you planning this brew? I have 50L of the popular DrS Golden Ale coming off primary tomorrow morning. Fermented with US-05. You can have the whole cake if your interested, it is heading for the compost otherwise.

 

[drsmurto]

When were you planning this brew? I have 50L of the popular DrS Golden Ale coming off primary tomorrow morning. Fermented with US-05. You can have the whole cake if your interested, it is heading for the compost otherwise.

Awesome work Boston, 2 yeast cakes in a month! Hoping to brew this in the next week or 2. Chatting to mate with the chemistry set tomorrow night over a few brews.

Dont suppose you want a 1469 yeast cake in return?

 

[reviled]

Dont suppose you want a 1469 yeast cake in return?

How can you say no to that :icon_drool2: