Single Malt Wash

[geoffd]

Methanol boils at 64.7C, ethanol at 78.3C. FWIW - Flash point is VERY different to boiling point
Having crunched the numbers further it does seem silly not to do a normal length boil, if only to get more of the sugars from the malt.
FJ - very interested in the idea of adding some of the fermented 'beer' back after distilling. Plan was the ferment, crash chill and hit with gelatine. Dont fancy the idea of distilling yeast cake!

Point taken with the flash, not sure how a longer boil will yield more sugar, do you mean a longer mash. If you arent using the wash as flavouring then i don't see the need to remove the yeast at all. Although the resultant distillated clear spitit would be known as poitin (phonetically potcheen).
A common misunderstanding is that poitin is made from potatoes in Ireland, it is actually made from barley & traditionally was around 70-90% abv ie not very watered down. Essentially irish & scotch whisk(e)y is poitin flavoured with fermented barley wort. Both poitin & whiskey are served with optional room temperature water, anything else, including ice, is an absolute bastardisation, & as for cola; well thats for **** whisky like tomato sauce is for **** food.
Slainte

 

[Frank]

Awesome work Boston, 2 yeast cakes in a month! Hoping to brew this in the next week or 2. Chatting to mate with the chemistry set tomorrow night over a few brews.
Dont suppose you want a 1469 yeast cake in return?

I'll take some 1469, haven't used it before, but keen to give it a try.
If you get your recipe sorted for pitching this weekend, you can borrow my 60L fermenter and drop the wort on top of the undisturbed cake, and I can get the fermenter back on the 13th. Otherwise I will need to transfer it to another container.
I am guessing you will need a fair volume for your mate to do his reduction method with.

 

[newguy]

Point taken with the flash, not sure how a longer boil will yield more sugar, do you mean a longer mash.

Longer boil means more water evaporation, which means a more concentrated wort = higher alcohol content.

 

[geoffd]

higher density wort, will make it harder for the yeast to work & may result in slightly less alcohol.
I assume the boil we are talking about is pre fermentation, not the alcohol boil in distillation.
We might just have our wires crossed here?!

 

[recharge]

Don't know if this bit of info is any value to what you want to achieve but whilst touring the Jack Daniels distillery i discovered that they ferment with all the grains still in the mix. Not sure about the boil off though.

Rich

 

[drsmurto]

what newguy said - Longer boil means higher evap rate which means i can add more sparge water and hence extract more sugars. Means i can use less grain for the same abv (prob target 10%). For 25L i am looking at 13.5kg of malt!

Its 1 of the reasons i do a 90 min boil as a standard.

As for poitin, met a bloke from Belfast when living in Rennes (France) and he had a few bottles of a clear spirit he called poitin. Had a sip and decided it would be better utilised for cleaning car engines!

Agree, good whiskey needs only a few drops of water and some good company.

boston - wont be brewing the wash this weekend, brewing a deuchars IPA and a ruddles county this arvo and tomorrow. Maybe next weekend. So if you could do the same as you did last time and put the yeast cake ina bottle that would be greatly appreciated. I will wash the 1469 yeast cake a few more times and have it ready for you whenever you drop around next.

 

[geoffd]

I see says the blind man, brewery capacity limitations
keep on sparging!

 

[Swinging Beef]

We have talked about doing a single malt whiskey

Dont forget to age it for 10 or 20 years to smooth it out. :icon_cheers:

 

[MHB]

No brew is added back into the distillate in Scotch making, the only time that I know of where brew is added to distillate is in port making.

The characteristic flavours of the grain/grapes/fruit/herbs/spices and yeast carry over during distillation.
Double distillation is standard, (triple for Irish whiskey) in a pot still (not a reflux) gives good results, just dont be a tight ass and push the temperature up too high or you start getting lots of fusels.

I do have a sample of Malt Whiskey, Bourbon and Rum Yeast (dry) in the fridge.
They are there because I am developing kits for the above.

Be happy to give out some free samples, in exchange for good feedback.

PM Me if you want some

I knew the certificate in distilling Im studying for would come in handy didnt expect it to be on AHB wonder how long this thread will last.
MHB

 

[drsmurto]

How important is the yeast for this MHB?

 

[MHB]

Every part of the process affects the outcome (even to the point where distilleries have been known to reproduce dints in pot stills when they are being replaced).

So yes I would say as important as your choice of malt, mash regime and temperatures.

Start with a mash balanced between Peated and any plain base malt (to taste), as I drink Islay malts that would be 100% Peated for me (Lagavulin 16 y.o. sitting on the desk).
Crush and Mash for high efficiency and attenuation (cool long mash) boil for a couple of minutes to sterilise (no hops).
If the brew is a bit turbid its not a problem, ferment to dryness and fine the bejesus out of the brew before proceeding.

Only ever distil yeast free crystal clear wash and again DONT be greedy, apart from methanol all the bad stuff comes out last.

Serve with a large dose of patience and some nice French oak chips

MHB

 

[drsmurto]

Thanks for that MHB.

i drink most (good) single malts - first attempt to see if its worth all the extra effort will be straight ale malt, after that will add in peated malt.

Yep, oaked it will be. Had contemplated buying a new barrel for it to age/oak in but will go some oak chips.

 

[reviled]

Thanks for that MHB.

i drink most (good) single malts - first attempt to see if its worth all the extra effort will be straight ale malt, after that will add in peated malt.

Yep, oaked it will be. Had contemplated buying a new barrel for it to age/oak in but will go some oak chips.

Noooo, buy the barrel, then you can use it for beers later :icon_cheers:

 

[muckanic]

Bear in mind that the ester content will increase sharply after about 7% ABV. Some of these add flavour, some are a PITA. Ethyl acetate, for example, boils just below EtOH and cannot be separated in a pot still. Even after a heads cut, enough will bleed into the hearts to cause that whiskey burn. Another tip is that lipids (from both the malt and the yeast) can be responsible for a lot of the flavour. So ferment the cold break at the very least. Some distillers ferment on the grain (tolerating DMS in the ferment), strain, sparge and then distill, with no racking. It all depends whether you want a light or heavy product, although I believe the scotch process is closer to unhopped beer than most.

 

[reviled]

Bump...

So did you do this in the end? Or still planning?

 

[drsmurto]

Its getting close - Boston dropped off the US05 yeast cake so i have enough for a 25L batch of 10-12%.

Been thinking about it and am tempted to keep the mash after sparging off and add some crystal/choc and see if i can sparge enough for ~ 15L of a mild. basically a partigyle on the fly. Will see what gravity readings i get during the process to see if its worth it.

Might even get to it next week with an early afternoon but i will be crushing the grain over the course of a few days. 13.5 kg thru a marga powered by hand....

 

[Spartan 117]

This reminds me of the Simpson's episode where Homer is making bath tub '12 year Old Scotch' and 'Cognac' in his basement :lol:

Your out there somewhere beer barron and ill find you

(homer in the distance) No you wont

Yes i will

Wont.....

 

[hoppinmad]

Dragging up a very old thread I know... but I am considering making a 40 litre wash using some old JW Ale and Pilsner in my brewery. How did your whiskey making attempt go Dr Smurto? Did you get something resembling single malt in the end? Any tips on how the process could be improved?

 

[drsmurto]

Didn't turn out.

I did the mash, boil and ferment and left it condition for a month or so. Tasted quite nice at this stage for ~10% unhopped barleywine. I went 50/50 peated/ale.

Pot still is where it went to ****. Turns out the one i was offered was very small, ~5L and given beers ability to froth like crazy it was a disaster. Frothed so much that distillation was a no go, froth came across well before any distillate.

If i do attempt it again i would source the still first to make sure it was big enough for the job. Fine the resulting wash for yeast, protein and polyphenol to reduce frothing. Age the resulting spirit in a barrel.

 

[halabut]

Over the ditch, where all this is quite legal, homebrew stores sell anti-foaming agents to avoid this problem. You'll probably be able to find it at an commercial catering supply store in Aus but you'll probably have to get a lot more than you need.