SHould I buy a 100L Pilot Brewery From China?

[Doogs]

Hey guys,

I'm in the process of setting up a small brewery in the rural outskirts of Sydney and would like to please ask for your learned advice.

Before I go spending bazzilions of dollars on a full commercial kit, I'd like to start playing around with recipes in a small commercial "type" setup where I can build flavour consistency.

I'm also hoping to make the equipment available to other brewers wanting to experiment, so it needs to be easy to use.

After doing a fair bit of research I'm close to pushing the button on this option:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bzx-mOB00YcnaHhjN1gzUXdrSTg

What do you think?

 

[Mardoo]

No doc came up on the iPhone app. Be VERY careful with buying from China. There is quality gear to be had, and there is total crap to be had. Do your research well. Ideally get the phone number of folks who've bought from a company and talk to them directly about their experience and the quality.

 

[homebrewnewb]

man, i can see why that would be tempting.

The equipment is guaranteed for 5 years warranty for main tanks, and we supply
maintenance all life for free;

that though, is far too good to be true.
just noticed

The fermentation vessel, Top type, Doomed could be a bad sign.

i think you are going to have to contact purchasers in one or more of those countries and ask them first hand how their gear is going. it's the only way to be sure.

 

[GalBrew]

Why not reach out to another brewery that has sourced gear from China that they are happy with? The guys from Black Hops are always happy to dish out some advice when asked. I'd contact them through their 'ambassadors' Facebook page.

 

[bradsbrew]

Could almost buy a williamswarn for that sort of coin.

 

[gunbrew]

Also talk with a local customs broker about total cost TO YOUR DOOR.
A Mate bought something large from over seas.
The seller was saying price was the total cost etc, and he payed.
Once item arrived at port botany he was getting calls from the local port folks saying pay about 4 different bills if you want the item.
Some tax, some port charges and delivery from the port to his door.
His sweet buy was soured.
Seller simply said total cost was for delivery to Australian port and the rest of the costs were his problem.
I don't have all the details but he was not happy.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

If you're not in a hurry the China Brew Expo is on next year, October if I remember right in Shanghai, huge show and you may be able to pick up a bargain and stick it on a vessel in Shanghai Port.

 

[Doogs]

man, i can see why that would be tempting.

The equipment is guaranteed for 5 years warranty for main tanks, and we supply
maintenance all life for free;

that though, is far too good to be true.
just noticed

"The fermentation vessel, Top type, Doomed could be a bad sign."

i think you are going to have to contact purchasers in one or more of those countries and ask them first hand how their gear is going. it's the only way to be sure.

Haha, I had a similar thought.

Good idea about hitting up their previous customers. Will do

 

[Doogs]

Could almost buy a williamswarn for that sort of coin.

I just checked them out. Talk about fancy!

But it's not really what I'm going for if I'm honest. This is the first step in running a commercial brewery, so I'm not going to learn much about the process with a plug and play scenario like that.

 

[Doogs]

Also talk with a local customs broker about total cost TO YOUR DOOR.
A Mate bought something large from over seas.
The seller was saying price was the total cost etc, and he payed.
Once item arrived at port botany he was getting calls from the local port folks saying pay about 4 different bills if you want the item.
Some tax, some port charges and delivery from the port to his door.
His sweet buy was soured.
Seller simply said total cost was for delivery to Australian port and the rest of the costs were his problem.
I don't have all the details but he was not happy.

Jeez, I hadn't even thought of that...

Thanks for the heads up! I'll definitely get to the bottom of what the actual cost is to get it to the door.

 

[homebrewnewb]

@Mardoo kinda mentioned it first but yeah keep us posted. I am curious why the US and Canada would have had products shipped there they have such reputable stainless products there, why bring it in from China?

Can also confirm about large items, even between state capital cities.

 

[Doogs]

If you're not in a hurry the China Brew Expo is on next year, October if I remember right in Shanghai, huge show and you may be able to pick up a bargain and stick it on a vessel in Shanghai Port.

Wow, fantastic tip. Thank you! I'll definitely try and get along to that.

I can't wait that long for the pilot setup, however that looks like an amazing place to source the larger commercial equipment.

 

[Lionman]

It seems decent value if its reasonable quality, but in reality isn't it just a 100L single vessel brewery with 2 temp controlled fermenters?

Lifting that basket is going to fun with 25+kg of spent grain in it. Must weight 50+kgs, need some sort of winch or pulley system.

The fermenters are pretty cool (and probably most of the cost), but I would have thought if you are looking to do pilot batches you would want to replicate the process on a smaller scale.

What size is the main brewhouse going to be? Is that going to be single vessel? If its a 2V or 3V system then wouldn't a 100L 2V or 3V system be better so you can more closely replicate the process? Possibly not a big issue.

What value does this system have over doing smaller batches in homebrew single vessel system?

 

[Mardoo]

How much do you have to spend on the equipment, if I may ask?

 

[Doogs]

@Mardoo kinda mentioned it first but yeah keep us posted. I am curious why the US and Canada would have had products shipped there they have such reputable stainless products there, why bring it in from China?

Can also confirm about large items, even between state capital cities.

I think it's essentially the cost of labour.

As I've been pipe dreaming about this, I received some quotes from US and Canadian manufacturers DME and Newlands. For a 2,000ltr facility, it was between $500k and $750k USD...

A similar set up from China is costs circa $150k

 

[homebrewnewb]

Two Birds use DME, had a crack at them as to why they didn't buy Australian Stainless, but no bites. Still they don't brew it all there, some of it's contracted out to Hawkers. Depends how serious you are i guess. Still Moondog use the their old milk vat for a mash tun so... Again same story on with Hawkers also, if you wanted to scale up quickly it goes to someone who can do it i suppose.

 

[Doogs]

It seems decent value if its reasonable quality, but in reality isn't it just a 100L single vessel brewery with 2 temp controlled fermenters?

Lifting that basket is going to fun with 25+kg of spent grain in it. Must weight 50+kgs, need some sort of winch or pulley system.

The fermenters are pretty cool (and probably most of the cost), but I would have thought if you are looking to do pilot batches you would want to replicate the process on a smaller scale.

What size is the main brewhouse going to be? Is that going to be single vessel? If its a 2V or 3V system then wouldn't a 100L 2V or 3V system be better so you can more closely replicate the process? Possibly not a big issue.

What value does this system have over doing smaller batches in homebrew single vessel system?

Good point on the weight of the basket, but rigging up a winch won't be hard. I've got a decent sized shed to kit it out properly. Noted on the 2 or 3 vessel options as well... that strangely hadn't occurred to me.

Originally I was looking at a 50L facility, but the cost to increase to 100L was only an extra $1800. So I figured I might as well give myself the option.

 

[Doogs]

How much do you have to spend on the equipment, if I may ask?

About $10k AUD

 

[laxation]

Jeez, I hadn't even thought of that...

Thanks for the heads up! I'll definitely get to the bottom of what the actual cost is to get it to the door.

FYI, regarding CIF - they will pay for everything to the Aus port. From there, it's on you.
If something goes wrong while it's on the boat, that's your bad luck. They pay for insurance, sure, but then you have to deal with the (maybe chinese) insurance company.
If you do buy it, make sure to check out what sort of insurance coverage you get - will need to watch out to see if it covers the things that usually go wrong during OS transit
I don't know how likely anything is to happen on the boat, but something to be aware of..

https://www.incotermsexplained.com/...eleven-rules-in-brief/cost-insurance-freight/

 

[Coldspace]

Also check with Arctik, " Australian refrigeration council " on the process of importing something with refrigerant gas in it. You generally need to have a permit to import things into the country with refrigerant gasses in them. Depending on type of refrigerant and the intended use for it.
If this system requires one, then you may be able to get it sent minus the gas, and then a local refrigeration tech can recharge it here.
Best to call and check.