Sending homebrew interstate

[Milhouse]

So my brother is getting married in the middle of next year and I want to do a brew for his wedding. Only problem is he is in Perth and I am currently living in Brisbane.

The best thing I can think of is to package it in bottles and send via Toll or similar. Has anyone got any better ideas or experience doing something similar? Could I send a full corny keg? Are there anything I should do differently like less priming sugar etc.?

 

[S.E]

Are you attending the wedding? If so you may be able take it with you. I flew to Hong Kong a few years ago and took a 10L cube of real ale. Checked with the air line first and it wasn’t a problem.

 

[n87]

I would just prep the keg as you normally would and courier it via road.
Talk to the courier company and double (atleast) their estimation of how long it will take.

Sending it via air, you may have the PRV activating if you carbed it up fully. possibly loosing some beer and un-carbing it a bit.

Have a look at Pack and Send, I havent used them myself, but they seem to get a decent review from the musical instrument crowd.

 

[S.E]

Just release the pressure before you fly and repressure when you arrive. Or take the beer in a cube as I did and transfer to the keg to serve.

 

[n87]

Just release the pressure before you fly and repressure when you arrive. Or take the beer in a cube as I did and transfer to the keg to serve.

Just releasing the pressure wont do much to the overall pressure of the vessel once it has settled, you would need to fully de-carb the beer to ensure it wouldnt blow the prv when subject to lower outside pressure... I wouldnt be confident that it wouldnt blow it anyway.
You would also be up for excess baggage as it would be ~22kg on its own.
And it would be subject to baggage handlers... which we all know take the utmost care with each and every bag in their care.

I would be much more comfortable shipping it road.
Carbed up to properly seal and resist dints.

 

[S.E]

Well in my experience a cube of ale was just fine on a 9 hour flight. The short flight from Brisbane to Perth shouldn’t be a problem. Baggage allowance may not be a problem if OP is travelling with family.

 

[n87]

It may well be fine, Just giving my opinion and trying to outline all possible issues so OP can make an informed decision.

 

[Meddo]

According to this reference, aircraft cabins are typically pressurised to 11-12 psi, vs. 14.7 psi at sea level. Unless my physics-foo is out of whack, that should mean that the PRV only experiences an additional 4 psi at most above the internal keg pressure. Given corny kegs to my understanding are rated to 120+ psi, and a replacement PRV from Kegland is rated to 100 psi, I can't see it venting even if the cabin completely depressurised (-14.7 due to lack of atmospheric pressure, minus say 12 psi internal should be -26.7 psi differential pressure)? In which case you may have bigger things to worry about anyway...

Edit: which isn't to say that there aren't other practical reasons against sending it by air, although I was considering doing just this with a 6L keg when I visit my folks for Christmas.

 

[S.E]

It may well be fine, Just giving my opinion and trying to outline all possible issues so OP can make an informed decision.

I don’t think the PRV would be a problem or see any reason why pressure should build up enough to activate it. Air lines carry and serve cans of beer and bottles of Champagne without them exploding.

I guess the PRV could be sealed somehow to be on the safe side though.

 

[n87]

According to this reference, aircraft cabins are typically pressurised to 11-12 psi, vs. 14.7 psi at sea level. Unless my physics-foo is out of whack, that should mean that the PRV only experiences an additional 4 psi at most above the internal keg pressure. Given corny kegs to my understanding are rated to 120+ psi, and a replacement PRV from Kegland is rated to 100 psi, I can't see it venting even if the cabin completely depressurised (-14.7 due to lack of atmospheric pressure, minus say 12 psi internal should be -26.7 psi differential pressure)? In which case you may have bigger things to worry about anyway...

Edit: which isn't to say that there aren't other practical reasons against sending it by air, although I was considering doing just this with a 6L keg when I visit my folks for Christmas.

I was under the impression that the hold wasn't pressurised.

I don’t think the PRV would be a problem or see any reason why pressure should build up enough to activate it. Air lines carry and serve cans of beer and bottles of Champagne without them exploding.

I guess the PRV could be sealed somehow to be on the safe side though.

Im not saying that the keg will explode. the PRV is there to stop that happening by venting the excess pressure. The PRV is usually set to release well before getting to the rated pressure of the keg. I seem to remember that this was about 65psi, but I cant find a good answer online just now, and with alot of the PRV's out there being of some random Chinese origin, they could be anywhere between 40 and 200psi.

This coupled with a warm keg, where the headspace pressure is greatly increased by the beer rejecting some of the CO2 (and a little bit by the CO2 expanding due to heat).
and before you say that it is very cold in a planes hold, it only gets cold once the plane is up in the air, then the keg has to cool down, by that time, what I am talking about will have already happened.



The PRV going off is not likley to be dangerous or anything, but it may cause a small loss in beer, and an inconvenience when you pick your keg up at the other end and have to deal with a sticky keg, or beer all through your luggage if you put it in a bag.

 

[Meddo]

Good point re the temp change, worth considering. My carb chart doesn't go up to 23 degrees but extrapolating the pressure might be 35-40 psi at 2.5 volumes. I'm sure that's not the full story but it's all I've got at the moment

The pressure and temperature in the hold is the same as the cabin - that's where they keep pets when they travel, in with the rest of the luggage.

 

[altone]

Just releasing the pressure wont do much to the overall pressure of the vessel once it has settled, you would need to fully de-carb the beer to ensure it wouldnt blow the prv when subject to lower outside pressure... I wouldnt be confident that it wouldnt blow it anyway.
You would also be up for excess baggage as it would be ~22kg on its own.
And it would be subject to baggage handlers... which we all know take the utmost care with each and every bag in their care.

I would be much more comfortable shipping it road.
Carbed up to properly seal and resist dints.

Same here. I'd probably use e-go as they are pretty cheap and so far for me, have done a good job.
Toll took 2 weeks to deliver an item from 1 side of town to the other as they "misplaced it"

 

[S.E]

Im not saying that the keg will explode. the PRV is there to stop that happening by venting the excess pressure.

My point was cans and bottles don’t have PRVs so would explode if beer became over pressurised on a flight but they don’t.

Kegs have PRVs as they get connected to co2 cylinders. The keg won’t be connected to the co2 on the plane.

 

[Meddo]

OK, tying it in with soft drink cans, according to this reference (using real units!) a can of sugary fizz on average sits at 1.2 bar at 4 degrees, which increases to 2.5 bar at 20 degrees. Coca cola cans are 3.8 bar at 32 degrees. I would assume that the headspace (proportionally) in a soft drink can would be similar to a corny keg so these numbers probably represent an upper limit of the pressure inside. If you then add another 1 bar to the differential pressure on the vessel in the case of complete cabin depressurisation you'd still only be looking at something under 5 bar. The KK PRV is rated for ~7 bar, so in theory you've still got a lot of wriggle room even if the keg was full of soft drink at 1.2 bar rather than beer at 0.83 (typically).

No comment on manufacturing tolerances on a "100 psi PRV"...

 

[Milhouse]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I don't like the idea of flying with a keg in any case. I think road freighting a keg sounds like the go.

If I did go the cube option would you keg and force carb at the other end?

 

[n87]

My point was cans and bottles don’t have PRVs so would explode if beer became over pressurised on a flight but they don’t.

Kegs have PRVs as they get connected to co2 cylinders. The keg won’t be connected to the co2 on the plane.

My point was that a PRV will blow much earlier than the vessel.

Being connected to an external CO2 source has nothing to do with it, the CO2 tank only refills the space vacated by the carbonated beer when dispensing.

If I did go the cube option would you keg and force carb at the other end?

Either that or convince everyone that warm flat beer is the way of the future

 

[S.E]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I don't like the idea of flying with a keg in any case. I think road freighting a keg sounds like the go.

If I did go the cube option would you keg and force carb at the other end?

You could rack the beer to a cube and force carb the keg at the other end or prime to carb it if you have time.

Or you could prime the cube vent it before you fly and force carb when you transfer to the keg if necessary.

I don’t understand why you would consider flying with a cube but not a keg though? A keg would be a stronger safer bet than the cube.

 

[S.E]

My point was that a PRV will blow much earlier than the vessel.

Being connected to an external CO2 source has nothing to do with it, the CO2 tank only refills the space vacated by the carbonated beer when dispensing.




Either that or convince everyone that warm flat beer is the way of the future

Why exactly do you think beer on a flight would reach such a pressure to blow a PRV? Cans bottles and casks of beer can fly no problem

If your only concern is the PRV, well as I said above the PRV could be sealed to be on the safe side anyway.

And why would the beer be warm and flat? If it was under such pressure it would be way over carbed.

 

[Lionman]

I was under the impression that the hold wasn't pressurised.

The entire tube of the plane is pressurised. That's planes are tubes. It's an easy shape to hold pressure, like a keg or a CO2 cylinder, both tubes.


Just take the keg on the plane. It will be fine.

 

[S.E]

Just take the keg on the plane. It will be fine.

That’s what I would do but check first that the airline is happy taking kegs. You perhaps may have to open the lid to show them its not under pressure but that’s fine if its going to be gassed and consumed soon.

They may be happier with taking a cube as a cube of beer is pretty harmless looking. If you use a cube obviously don’t have the tap fitted. Use a bung then vent it and fit the tap after.