Secrets Of A Sweet Cider

[ian_fc]

Hi All,

I'm currently fermenting a BlackRock cider at home, however I'm pretty concerned that it will end up a little too dry for my liking (each to their own eh?).

I've searched pretty extensively through the AHB archives to find the secrets of a sweet cider and I've stumbled across a few theories but nothing that I would call conclusive proof.

Suggestions to date include:
1. Addition of approx 500g of lactose (for a 23L batch)
2. Use of apple/pear juice rather than just apple

Does anyone have experience with the above or have any other helpful advice that they might care to throw my way? For instance will the choice of yeast make a difference to sweetness?

I've pretty much accepted that this batch will be a dry cider, however the next cider I'm making is from 23L of Berri Apple/Pear juice and I'm keen to make this one a medium-sweet cider.

Thanks in advance!

Ian

 

[Fents]

Im in the same boat.

I've added lactose before and not heaps of change.

I reckon its to do with the packet yeast that comes out of the tin. Someone correct me if im wrong but if it starting at around 1.045OG and finishing at around 1.004 - 1.006 isnt that gonna make it really dry?

Next batch im going to try a clean ale yeast like US-56 which hopefully wont finish as low...

 

[boingk]

The yeast will make a big difference in your end brew, go for one with a lower attenuation rate such as S-04, or perhaps a liquid yeast more suited to the cider. Enquire about the latter at your local homebrew store.

My experiment with cider turned into champers after using 23L of apple juice, 2kg sugar and a champagne yeast! Bottled at 1.015-20 and waited...turned out beautifully, trails of bubbles, dry finish with sweet undertones, excellent flavour. Good thing I used plastic bottles or I woulda been cactus.

Hope all goes well - boingk

EDIT: I'd strongly recommend against US-56 [now called US-05] as although it is a very nice, clean yeast for making beer...its a high-attenuating dry ale yeast...which is not what you want. However, chances are it would be better than the kit yeast which is generally just Mauribrew 514 [comes with almost everything, even Homebrand kits]. I'd recommend S-04 instead.

 

[ian_fc]

Thanks for the early advice!

So the best bet sounds like a yeast that will stop chomping away before the SG get's too low (thus leaving a residual sweetness in the cider).

Has anyone else used S-04 before? Looking it up, it seems to be described as a Dry Ale Yeast. Does 'dry' in ale terms mean the same as dry in cider terms?

 

[ian_fc]

Also I forgot to mention that I've seen references to the need to add 'Nutrient' to the apple juice to support the cider, but no references to what 'Nutrient' actually is!

Any help on this one is greatly appreciated.

 

[bigholty]

I've pondered this one too, there's no elegant solution.
You can use artificial sweetner, but the after-taste is shitful.
You can bottle it before it's finished fermenting (some sugars left) then let it carbonate for a few days, then refrigerate it to slow down the yeast activity then drink it quickly, but DANGER, this is how you make bottle-bombs as you have to guess when to bottle and when to chill. And you need a big fridge to hold 30 longies.
You can sterile-filter and pasturise your brew, then add some sugar and force-carbonate before bottling, but you will probably need to ask Lion Nathan or CUB if you can borrow some of their production equipment.

From all I've read of using lactose and different yeast strains, etc, they all seem to have only a minor effect. If you find the holy grail though, let us know! Good luck.

 

[soupbones]

I have found with Cider and Ginger beer you need to ad double the lactose to what most recipes say to get it sweet, if you like it that way. LActose will make anything sweet, it just all depends on how much you add to your batch. Its non fermentable, so you won't get bottle bombs when adding it.
Try adding it after your batch has brewed. If you can, rack your brew to get most of the yeast out as well. Racking should still leave enough for you to carbonate bottles.

 

[hotboost]

I did my black rock with 20litres- included 9l of berri apple and pear.
not bad but still tasted abit yeasty. But for secondary i experiemented using different amounts of sugar.
I used pet bottles for safety. i used 1tsp , 1.5 tsp and 2 tspn.
best results were 1.5hm tsp for 750ml . just the right mount of gas.
would do again but currently drinking my morgans ginger beer 4.5%..

whooo now thats a nice drop highly recommended...

 

[ian_fc]

Cheers guys, well it seems like I've got quite a bit of experimenting to come!

To re-raise a question I asked earlier, does anyone know what kind of nutrient is required for the yeast. I've seen Wyeast sell a nutrient pack, but I've no idea what the contents are.

 

[sponge]

I'm pretty sure yeast nutrient is the same as dry enzyme, where it breaks down the more complex sugars into basic sugars so that they can also be used in fermentation to produce alcohol. Try not using the dry enzyme as those complex sugars will leave sweetness, but im not sure how complex most of the sugars in apple juice are, so you may or may not need them.

Id give it a go leaving them out and just leave it to ferment for a couple of weeks to let the yeast do as much as it can on its own


Sponge

 

[phonos]

yeast nutrient isn't the same as dry enzyme.

It contains minerals such as zinc which the yeast need to reproduce. these nutrients are present in malt but don't exist in other sugars such as honey, sucrose, dextrose and apple juice.

 

[frogman]

I have been doing Black Rock Cider kits for nearly 12 months now.
I mix mine with 2kg white sugar, ferment for 14 days at 19 deg,then keg.

If you plan to bottle and want a sweet cider I would suggest let it ferment out completly (dry), then either add some lemonade to adjust dryness/sweetness or get yourself a bottle of Soda Stream lemonade concentrate and add a little which should not dilute the alc content as much.

Cheers FROGMAN.....

 

[sponge]

yeast nutrient isn't the same as dry enzyme.

It contains minerals such as zinc which the yeast need to reproduce. these nutrients are present in malt but don't exist in other sugars such as honey, sucrose, dextrose and apple juice.

Dam, i was so close haha

Oh well... back to the corner for me



Sponge

 

[ian_fc]

While we are on the topic of sweet cider.....Does anyone know where I can get apple concentrate from for back-sweetening. I'm not a fan of artificial sweetners and have had concentrate recommended to me. Also, is it a frozen product or purchased at room temperature?

Has anyone ever used apple concentrate in this manner before?

Thanks all!

 

[phonos]

The Country Brewer cider kits contain apple concentrate, so you may be able to purchase it from there, although I'm not sure if they sell it seperately.

I've tried their Norma's Apple Cider kit before which uses apple concentrate and have enjoyed it, although if you're looking for a sweet kit, I should warn you it does end up a little dry (it uses champagne yeast)

 

[stevenk]

I have been doing Black Rock Cider kits for nearly 12 months now.
I mix mine with 2kg white sugar, ferment for 14 days at 19 deg,then keg.

If you plan to bottle and want a sweet cider I would suggest let it ferment out completly (dry), then either add some lemonade to adjust dryness/sweetness or get yourself a bottle of Soda Stream lemonade concentrate and add a little which should not dilute the alc content as much.

Cheers FROGMAN.....

do you enjoy the taste i had some of my bosses keg'd cider ( black rock ) the other day with only using white sugar as fermentabls, it was streight out of the keg and streight and thrown away.

 

[stillscottish]

Serve it with a shot of apple juice.

 

[tcraig20]

Last cider I made I used 12 litres of apple juice and 8 litres of apple/pear. From memory, the apple/pear was about 55/45%. I fermented with S04. It came out OK, a little on the dry side but not too bad.

Im going to try to have another crack at it in spring with some windsor yeast to get a lower attenuation (more sweetness).

Ciders improve a lot in the bottle. After a month, mine was OK, but didnt really have much of a cider/apple flavour (in fact, it tasted more of alcohol than anything). That's mellowed out over the last 6 months or so, more of an apple flavour now.

Another thing Im going to try next time is to ferment warmer. I fermented the last batch at 18C. I guess in hindsight I was trying to make beer out of apple juice (keep the 'cidery' flavours out by brewing below 20C). I reckon I might try cranking it up to around 25-26C for the first few days and then let it cool down a bit to throw up some of the cidery esters.

Yeast nutrient isnt needed in my experience, it fermented out just fine, but it might go a lot quicker with a bit of nutrient to ive it a kick along (mine took about 6 weeks to ferment out).

 

[BenH]

You could also try a yeast which is specialised for cider... like 4766