Scottish Independence

[philmud]

"Breathes there the man with soul so dead
Who never to himself hath said,
This is my own, my native land!"
- Sir Walter Scott

I don't profess to know enough about the Scots or UK economies to have anything other than a sentimental opinion on this, but **** I hope Scotland flashes what they've got under their kilts and votes for independence.

 

[Forever Wort]

Secede me laddies.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

“The best laid schemes o' Mice an' Men,
Gang aft agley.
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain,
For promis'd joy!

 

[philmud]

“The best laid schemes o' Mice an' Men,
Gang aft agley.
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain,
For promis'd joy!

This is the wrong thread to discuss a brew day gone awry.

 

[Dave70]

My everlasting memory of visiting Scotland was the barefaced disdain for the British - or rather Englishman. They seemed to be rabid, piss swilling, fried food eating nationalists.

Sounds like a stupid idea given the EUs current state.

I'll bet they go broke.

Or get invaded.

 

[billygoat]

My everlasting memory of visiting Scotland was the barefaced disdain for the British - or rather Englishman.

I was in Inverness in 1989 when I was 26 yo.
Went to the local hairdresser to have a trim.
Very nice scottish lass, I guessed around her early 20's, started cutting my hair.
We were getting along very well and she said, "You know why I like Australians?"
I'm thinking, "I might be in here",
She says, "You hate the English as much as we do".

 

[philmud]

From Trainspotting:

Tommy (looking at the hills): Doesn't it make you proud to be Scottish?

Renton (drunk, 'clean,' and pissed off): It's ***** being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low! The scum of the ******* Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization! Some people hate English. I don't! They're just ******s! We, on the other hand, are colonized by ******s! Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized by! We're ruled by effete arseholes! It's a ***** state of affairs to be in, Tommy! And all the fresh air in the world won't make any ******* difference.


http://youtu.be/G1tJJO_pVvQ

 

[Feldon]

In late 1977 I arrived in a rainy Edinburgh by train. I and several others whom I recognised from the train (today we would be called 'backpackers') went to a local Youth Hostel to check in. But although we could leave our bags there we were told we couldn't enter until 6pm. So off to a nearby pub we went, a mixed bunch of travellers from various countries.

Entering the smoky gloom of the pub we found rows of pre-poured pints of stout with accompanying shot glasses of whisky. These were to serve the arriving regulars nipping in for a drink on the way home from work. So the fun began mixing it with the locals who were immediately hospitable and friendly. I think I only bought my first drink - the rest came from Scottish generosity.

A Canadian, whom I'd only just met, and I were asked by some regulars if we would like to play darts. The Canadian said, "OK, but I've never played English darts before". The place became silent - could have heard a pin drop. This giant hairy Scotsman nearby stood up and bellowed, "It's not English darts we play! Its Scottish darts!!". Apologies were profusely made and I made a polite exit back to the YH.

 

[technobabble66]

What I don't get is why our esteemed PM, Mr Abbott, would throw his 2c worth in and suggest to the Scots they should stay w the sassenach. Aside from being a foreigner w NFI, surely he couldn't have forgotten that we did exactly what the Scots are doing, only 113 yrs earlier. Does he think we made a mistake?

I suspect that in practical terms the Scots would be smarter to put aside their resentment of the poms, but it seems silly for any Aussie to tell them not to opt for independence.

 

[philmud]

I suspect that in practical terms the Scots would be smarter to put aside their resentment of the poms, but it seems silly for any Aussie to tell them not to opt for independence.

It's worth mentioning that the resentment stems from some pretty ******* heinous treatment. Maybe they should put it aside, but the English subjugation of their Celtic neighbours was not trivial.

 

[Dave70]

http://youtu.be/TV9rZAchZg4

 

[AHB_Admin]

Well they stuck with it.

I think we (You as Aussies, me as a American) have a unique perspective on independence from Britain, but it's just our guts telling us to split. Nothing more.

 

[philmud]

Well they stuck with it.

I think we (You as Aussies, me as a American) have a unique perspective on independence from Britain, but it's just our guts telling us to split. Nothing more.

I'd say that's plenty! Poor old Sctoland, suffering from a bad case of Stockholm syndrome

 

[AHB_Admin]

I think after so long you just give up.

Should we rename is Glasgow Syndrome? They have tolerated English rule longer than most.

 

[real_beer]

I believe the people of every country should be able to rule themselves. I also believe hating your neighbors isn't going to help you prosper in any shape or form.

I was born in North Wales to English parents and we later moved to Australia in 1967 for 10 quid. Over my life I've always got on well with all nationalities of people by treating them as I'd like to be treated. Respect for others goes a long way in removing mass mind prejudices about different races of people, and the best way to make it work is by just doing it in your day to day contact with the people you cross paths with in YOUR OWN daily life.

One of my teaches at High School in Australia was an Irishman from Belfast, he was a really nice quiet gentle person. During an open discussion to the class one day he admitted to us all that when he lived in Ireland the hatred and history of the past festered openly in most peoples lives, he then said that after moving to Australia and looking at it from the outside realised how stupid and wasteful the whole situation was, but at least he found happiness over here.

When the Vietnamese boat people first started coming to Australia I knew a guy who absolutely hated them, he didn't threaten or abuse them in person but he'd openly voice his displeasure to any white person around at the time. The phrase Slope-head burst forth from his mouth every second word, this was always preceded with the other word F*****g. Anyway the company he worked for started hiring some Vietnamese people which of course only fueled his hatred even more. I didn't see him for awhile but the next time we met a miraculous change had come over him. He admitted that being a supervisor he'd been forced to have closer contact than he'd cared for working with the Vietnamese workers and one of them had attached themselves to him. He was like a loyal puppy that wouldn't leave him alone, every week he'd ask him to bring his wife around to his home for dinner. He eventually gave in and went round, he said both he and his wife were treated like royalty and it was one of the best meals and night out they'd ever had. He then said 'I never felt so ashamed of myself in my whole life, it shook me to the core and has changed my life completely'.
I don't really believe he hated the Vietnamese people in the first place, he'd just got caught up in the mass mind of the hater's and dragged along for the ride until he saw the light. The most important point is that one man changed the world for the better and we all can if we decide too. Don't look to Tony Abbott or any other politicians to make this world a better place, just do it yourself. You've got to look for the best in people and make the most of the situations facing you, the guy in 'Trainspotting' might see his people as the lowest of the low, I however have always admired the Scottish for being brilliant Engineers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Scottish_engineers and I think they were pretty good at medicine too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scots#Physicians_and_Medical_Professionals
:beer:

 

[manticle]

I like that story.

 

[welly2]

As a pom who stayed up all night watching the referendum, and who has a Scottish father and was born in Wales, I must admit I was fully behind Scotland voting for independence. In reality, that came from the heart rather than the head. Part of me believes Scotland have missed a great opportunity but the other part realises that there were far too many unanswered questions. I'm yet to meet a Scot who either voted yes or would have voted yes if they could. My dad was unable to vote, having lived in England for some time, but he was defiantly in favour of staying part of the UK. Another Scottish mate said he believed that Scotland would have no problem as an independent nation but felt the question is not can they but should they and he believed they shouldn't and felt it would have been of absolutely no benefit. Scotland's situation is entirely different to Australia being Scotland has been part of the UK for many hundreds of years so to compare the two makes no sense. I still partly believe they've missed a unique opportunity but I dare say it'll come up again in the future and we might see a different result entirely.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Borders are something that has been fought over for thousands of years long before differing religions, when an animal has marked out it's territory it is one thing it will fight to the death for to protect its territory and keep interlopers out, so it is no wonder that we have evolved the the same ideals.
We have only to look at the Ukraine / Russia troubles, Iraq and Syria, Israel and Palestine it is a conflict that unfortunately will be with us until the end of time there will always be some dictator,tyrant, despot with greedy ambitions on other countries.
As for Scotland I fail to see any benefits of breaking the Union, a referendum was a dignified way of casting support one way or the other, I don't think I could sit through another Mel Gibson movie about how Scotland tried to free itself from England.

 

[Rambo]

Well said... I disagree though and think that Scotland would be better off if the vote had gone the other way. I never expected it to get up (even though many of my Scottish friends voted yes) since referendums rarely get a yes vote first time around, especially those that require such a drastic change in people's everyday lives.

I don't think I could sit through another Mel Gibson movie...