Salami 101

[benno1973]

Salami and sausage day at ours on Saturday. Off a 150kg carcass, we managed to get about 130kg of meat and fat, which was far more than we expected. We also had kangaroo, goat and chicken which made the scheduling a bit complex.

Anyway, started boning out the pig at 9am and wrapped up around 7:30pm, so a pretty long day for all participants (and partners and kids!). We ended up with:

100 chilli salamis
100 pepper salamis
50 pork and kangaroo chorizo for hot smoking
10kg kangaroo linguica salamis
15kg satay kangaroo sausages
6kg goat longaniza sausages
4kg curried chicken sausages

Mincing the meat. This year we had the Kenwood and a Tefal mincer, both of which were shelved after mincing to make way for the Reber stuffing machine


100+kg of pork, waiting to be mixed. 4kg of salt 'sprinkled' on top.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Gents I am inspired.

There's a few kgs of good Pork shoulder in the fridge and have finally worked out a spot in my flat where I can hang them that wont be in the way or get heated (hallway, up high above our heads... they don't drip do they??) and I have some casings in the fridge ready to go... I am too chicken to do it with just salt so I'll be using some nitrite/nitrate though. Maybe next year for just salt after I have had a go and not killed anyone.

Just put a ham on to cure (rosemary, juniper berries, corriander seeds) and that'll get cooked sous vide and then smoked to finish. Trial run, I'd like to make
x-mas hams for the family this year.

 

[benno1973]

They do drip unfortunately. I generally have an old towel underneath mine when I hang them to catch the drips.

Make sure you do some good research on the nitrite/nitrate before you start, you don't want too much or too little. The prague powder we bought is 12.8% sodium nitrite mixed with salt, so when mixed in the correct quantities with additional salt, you want to get around 0.5% nitrite. Having said all that, this year we went with just salt.

 

[benno1973]

Can anyone talk me through the humidity requirements during drying the salamis? I've always just hung them in the shed and hoped for the best, but I understand that some 'shed hangers' build a fire in the corner at the start of the drying period, and wash down the floor towards the end. I gather this is to reduce humidity towards the start (while the sausages are still quite wet) and increase humidity towards the end. Is this right?

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I am following recipes from trusted sources for my nitrite/nitrate levels (correlate with the research I have done about the proper levels too) - and I have confirmed with my supplier the ratios used in the cure I bought... so I am pretty confident I have the right level in my salami ... which I made today !!

Also cooked a ham I have been curing - tomorrow its off to the market for pork belly (Pancetta) and Girello eye of Beef (bresola) ... maybe more prok for chorizo.

Here's my effort.. meagre by some of the standards here - but it'll do for a first go.

Salami hanging in the Hallway of my flat.. I can only hope they don't drip too much.



Ham Hanging in the kitchen... just surface drying for a few hours before going in the fridge and eating fat slices fried with eggs for breakfast tomorrow. It was cured and cooked in a vacuum bag.



so.... 3 or 4 weeks to wait then I see how the Salami adventure turns out. Thanks for the ideas and pointers in this thread everyone.

TB

 

[mxd]

TB, that looks great and kaiser what a great looking day.

my birthdays coming up and I always wanted to get a sausage maker, I think seeing the salami's I will go for the sunbeam mincer/sausage maker this year.

And maybe the cheese maker for fathers day

 

[kirem]

I have been quiet on the nitrite/nitrate discussion for fear of starting yet another shit-fight thread on AHB, but stuff it, here goes. Let see if we can have a decent thread

One of the main reasons I made an effort to learn traditional salami and meat curing from my Italian mates is that I have heard and read a lot about the negative effects of nitrite/nitrate on the body or more correctly they can form nitrosamines. Meat is very high in amines and I wanted to make nitrite/nitrate free cured meats but also have some skills in spoilage detection

It is illegal to sell cured meats without the addition of nitrite/nitrate in Australia. I think minced meat or any meat that has been processed to allow oxygen contact and therefore microbiological growth has to have nitrite added

They have been linked to cancer (like just about everything these days), destroys red blood cells and a whole lot of short term effects similar to what SO2 in wine is blamed for ie headaches, asthma, hangovers etc. I even read that it has been blamed for HIV! I have found as much information on nitrite/nitrate being bad for you as I have found that it is unproven

Now I don't suffer from any effects of high SO2 in wine and don't suffer from the short term effects (that I know of) from commercial cured meat but I don't like the sound of nitrite/nitrate in anything I consume.

I figure people have been making cured meats for centuries. I am not sure maybe they did it in the bronze age or before? I think the skills to check for spoilage have been replaced by reliance on chemicals in many parts of our life. We have rules forced on us by the fear of the dickheads in our population killing themselves and therefore we no longer have natural selection to remove the dickheads from the gene pool.

If I can make my cured meats without nitrite/nitrate then I don't need to worry. There are so many skills for food collection, production that have been lost or are not practiced anymore that it is really sad. On a side note, I watched a thing on the Italian food safari on mushroom collection and the skills taught as a young kid on what is a good eating mushroom and what will make you sick or kill you. I thought shit, imagine all the place in Australia that mushroom collection could be enjoyed but isn't practiced.

So those that use nitrite/nitrates why and those that don't why not?


View attachment 39300

 

[Steve]

Saw some meat slicers at Aldi yesterday for $50 if you want to slice some of your salamis etc.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Nitrates/Nitrites

Safety - till I learn more about what I am doing. When I have experience under my belt at doing the smallgoods thing. Then maybe I wills start to explore curing with just salt. Hell, I considered it to be risky and adventurous to skip fermenting the sausages to drop the pH.

Tradition - Hundreds of years using nitrates in smallgoods making. Sure.. thousands of years making smallgoods without them before that... but Botulism means "sausage sickness" (or some such thing) in Latin... While maybe Nitrosamines give you cancer, botulism gives you dead. So since they worked out that nitrates help to stop it, they've been using the stuff - and Saltpeter isn't exactly an invention of the modern age. Yeah I know... little wizened Italian guys have been making salami without nitrates for generations... but check the incidence of botulism poisoning in areas where its common.... want to lay a few bets that its not a shitload higher than it is in areas where people buy their smallgoods from manufacturers who follow modern methods?

Flavour - Made bacon or ham without the nitrites?? I have. Tastes like salt pork... not like bacon. The nitrites contribute flavour, stop the meat going grey and stop you poisoning yourself... winners all round.

Cancer Threat as a concern.... OK. Fair enough. I get that. But I've been eating commercially cured bacon, ham, salami etc all my life... and I have no doubt I will continue to do so every time I by any small goods from a shop. The small amount I would save by not using them in teh smallgoods I make for myself is hardly going to make a massive difference. Besides.... I smoked for 20 years. If the nitrosamines can get me before all the crap I sucked into my lungs does - good luck to em I say.

I don't insist that other people "should" use nitrites or bacterial cultures etc... hell if you offer me some of your homemade Salami see how much I care as I scarf the stuff down. But I don't trust me not to kill my friends and family - so I plan to be careful till I know what I'm doing... and probably after that too.

 

[benno1973]

I haven't used Nitrites/Nitrates, just salt so far. We have a big bag of prague powder if ever we want to use it (should last us for a lifetime, given the amount you add), but till now I've trusted that my salt additions are in the right proportions and the temperatures are low enough to discourage bad microbial growth. Legislation means that commercial producers need to use it, and I eat commercial products, so I can't say that I'd never eat it. But if I have a choice as to what goes into my salami, I'd prefer just salt.

I tried looking for a discussion about the good and bad points of using nitrates, but there's no real unbiased discussions on the net. Like when I searched for the pros and cons of child immunisation - the arguments are polar, and no-one presents the facts in an unbiased way. Anyone who's done the same search will understand what I mean.

Interesting point about the bacon and ham. I've never done one, and I was thinking about doing it. Might use some prague powder in that, so I guess I'm not that adverse to it.

As a side note, I also have a big bag of saltpetre, which I understand isn't used in the industry any more? Wonder what I'm going to do with that... gunpowder anyone?

And nice work on the salami TB. Would love some info about the ham curing process and what you did?

 

[kirem]

While maybe Nitrosamines give you cancer, botulism gives you dead.

I was of the understanding that cancer gives you dead as well!

Made bacon or ham without the nitrites?? I have. Tastes like salt pork... not like bacon. The nitrites contribute flavour

yes I have and it didn't taste like salt to me, it was some of the best I've tasted.

Out of interest, do you have any flavour descriptors of nitrite/nitrate?

We have a really good local butcher, I might grab a few beers and ask some questions about nitrite use etc and get another opinion as well

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Does anyone know where to get liquid smoke from instead of having to smoke them... i want to try it with some jerky

 

[kirem]

Does anyone know where to get liquid smoke from instead of having to smoke them... i want to try it with some jerky

http://www.jomaysgifthampers.com.au/shop/p...products_id=111

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Does anyone know where to get liquid smoke from instead of having to smoke them... i want to try it with some jerky

Or

http://stores.shop.ebay.com.au/BBQHQnet__W0QQ_armrsZ1

I've bought cure, casings etc from here. Good guy good service and most sausage ingredient related things you need including the cheapest stainless sausage stuffers out there that i know of.

Ntrites taste... well... like ham. I haven't tried it.. but apparently if you cure chicken or turkey with nitrites, they end up distinctly "hammy" so I think its just one of those things.

Bacon etc cured with just salt doesn't have that thing that screams ham - like prosciutto. Its ham alright, but because its just salt cured and aged.. it doesn't have that "thing" that most of us would associate with ham. They are still delicious and one day when I find a place to do it I'll give proper prosciutto a go... but until then I want ham that tastes hammy.

I have made up a general purpose dry cure mix - 450g salt, 225g sigar, 50g Prague Powder #1 and I use it at 22-25g /kg of meat as a dry cure. Thats how I did the ham... just added herbs and spices, rubbed the ham and sealed it in a vac bag.

It actually didn't work out properly -- I didn't wait long enough for it to cure or for the salt levels to equalize before I cooked it. So I have a cooked peice of meat that is almost bacon on the outside... lightly cured ham on the inside and lightly salted pork in the very middle. its bloody delicious still. But not what i was trying for. I will probably stick to immersing in brine form now on.. maybe I will use the big marinade injector I have coming to pump the meat a little to speed things up.

Speaking of which... I'm just about to go fry a couple of slices up for dinner with sauerkraut.

 

[kirem]

Ntrites taste... well... like ham. I haven't tried it.. but apparently if you cure chicken or turkey with nitrites, they end up distinctly "hammy" so I think its just one of those things.

hmm so to make anything taste like what we have been led to believe is the taste of ham, just add nitrite.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

exactly - it might be a problem if I didn't like that taste - but luckily I do.

 

[hairofthedog]

i agree with kirem just salt to cure ive been reading Preserving the Italian Way by Pietro Demaio the guy is a doctor in melbourne & he only uses salt to cure so i recon if its good enough for someone whos studied medicine for 7 years its good enough for me

 

[benno1973]

yes I have and it didn't taste like salt to me, it was some of the best I've tasted.

Hey Kirem,

Have you got some info on how you did the ham? I've been doing a bit of research on suasagemaking.org, but everyone there uses either cure #1 or #2, or saltpetre. Can't seem to find much info on just using salt, and I'd be interested to try this method.

Cheers, Ben

 

[kirem]

I have used this recipe and technique a few times. first one was too salty and dried out. but with trial and error I have made a few really good ones. I reduced the 32 days in the attached recipe/technique to 3 weeks and it was about right for me and my fridge conditions. I think the trick is to take all the salt, garlic pepper off once the meat is just cured and that takes trials.

It is nothing like the ham in the supermarket, but if I want that I'll get some chicken breast and add nitrite!

View attachment 39335

 

[benno1973]

Oh yeah! That sounds good!...

Will have to try this.