Saflager S23

[Nishy]

Hi there, I'm brewing a Lager using Saflager S23 yeast and I'm a bit confused about what temp the yeast should be added at. The instructions for the brew say add the yeast at 25 degrees C but the yeast instructions say temp should be 11 - 24 Degrees C but ideally 11-15 degrees C. I added the yeast straight away when my fermenter was at 22 Degrees C and over the last 3 days the temp has been a steady 16 Degrees C. Over the last 3 days the Specific Gravity has gone from 1044,1040,1036,1027.
My problem is that there is no bubbling from my air lock, does this matter and at what temp should the yeast be pitched at??
Also should I be checking the Specific Gravity every day or does this upset the yeast.
How long should the fermentation take with this yeast?
Any assistance appreciated.

Cheers
Daryl

 

[the_purple_dragon]

Hi there, I'm brewing a Lager using Saflager S23 yeast and I'm a bit confused about what temp the yeast should be added at. The instructions for the brew say add the yeast at 25 degrees C but the yeast instructions say temp should be 11 - 24 Degrees C but ideally 11-15 degrees C. I added the yeast straight away when my fermenter was at 22 Degrees C and over the last 3 days the temp has been a steady 16 Degrees C. Over the last 3 days the Specific Gravity has gone from 1044,1040,1036,1027.
My problem is that there is no bubbling from my air lock, does this matter and at what temp should the yeast be pitched at??
Also should I be checking the Specific Gravity every day or does this upset the yeast.
How long should the fermentation take with this yeast?
Any assistance appreciated.

Cheers
Daryl

Hey Nishy,

Sounds like it's going along fine, as for the no bubbles in the air lock, I would say the lid isn't quite air tight. I have the same problem with mine, I have to give it a tweak after a couple of days and away she goes. As for readings every day, my opinion would be give it a week or so then start taking them.

Cheers,
TPD

 

[Kleiny]

common worry no bubbling
probably just not air tight its no problem and once you brew for a while you get to know what the fermentation is up to.
I rarely take much notice of my air lock anymore once it reaches around 1012 try and cool it right down to around 10C
and age at that for around a month should be a nice beer.

 

[Nishy]

Thanks for the info. So when I pitch the yeast s23 should it be 11-24 degrees or can it be 22 degrees. I can't make it any cooler as I don't have refrigeration or cooler and what do you mean by age at that for around one month? Do you mean leave it in the fermentor for another month??

Cheers
Daryl

 

[Kleiny]

Thanks for the info. So when I pitch the yeast s23 should it be 11-24 degrees or can it be 22 degrees. I can't make it any cooler as I don't have refrigeration or cooler and what do you mean by age at that for around one month? Do you mean leave it in the fermentor for another month??

Cheers
Daryl

Yes you can pitch at 22C without a problem most people will pitch at this and once it starts to krausen cool it down to 10-12C as lager yeasts will operate at this temp.

what i mean is leave it in the fermenter for around 2 weeks and then bottle / keg and chill to 10C and hold at that temp for one month this will give it time to mellow out the flavours and give you a good smooth lager.

 

[Nishy]

Thanks Kleiny - much appreciated.

Also I read somewhere "at the end of fermenting Lager needs to warm up so the yeast can finish fermenting all its byproducts called a diacytel rest" is this true??

Cheers

Daryl

 

[dmcke109]

Hi Daryl,

Saw no one had replied to your latest post so I have cut and pasted a bit of Palmer's online book below that hopefully answers your question:

Some brewers pitch their yeast when the wort is warmer and slowly lower the temperature of the whole fermenter gradually over the course of several days until they have reached the optimum temperature for their yeast strain. This method works, and works well, but tends to produce more diacetyl (a buttery-flavored ketone) than the previous method. As the temperature drops the yeast become less active and are less inclined to consume the diacetyl that they initially produced. The result is a buttery/butterscotch flavor in the lager, which is totally out of style. Some amount of diacetyl is considered good in other styles such as dark ales and stouts, but is considered a flaw in lagers. To remove any diacetyl that may be present after primary fermentation, a diacetyl rest may be used. This rest at the end of primary fermentation consists of raising the temperature of the beer to 55-60 F for 24 - 48 hours before cooling it down for the lagering period. This makes the yeast more active and allows them to eat up the diacetyl before downshifting into lagering mode. Some yeast strains produce less diacetyl than others; a diacetyl rest is needed only if the pitching or fermentation conditions warrant it.

The web address if you want to check this out is:
http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter10-4.html

Basically, all I do is raise the temp of my wort to around 16-17C for a couple of days before I am about to keg. I do this when fermentation is around 3/4 of the way through (although I'm sure others on the forum will have their own unique time that they raise the tempreture).

Anyway hope this helps,
Dan

Thanks Kleiny - much appreciated.

Also I read somewhere "at the end of fermenting Lager needs to warm up so the yeast can finish fermenting all its byproducts called a diacytel rest" is this true??

Cheers

Daryl

 

[Nishy]

Thanks Dan - very interesting and great to learn all these new things.
My brew is bubbling away nicely and the temp has done the following:
Day 0 :22 C
Day 1: 16 C
Day 2: 16 C
Day 3: 17 C
Day 4: 18 C - Today

These temperatures were taken in the afternoon and night temperatures could only go down to 10C as I have a thermostat on my heater which would kick in if required.

The temp range for Saflager s23 is 11 - 24C is OK and 11-15 C IDEAL - so my temp has stayed mostly in the OK range. Do you think I would still need to warm my wort for a couple of days before bottling?

Cheers

Daryl

 

[dmcke109]

No worries Daryl.

Re this:

These temperatures were taken in the afternoon and night temperatures could only go down to 10C as I have a thermostat on my heater which would kick in if required.

If you read other parts of Palmers book and other posts on this forum, I think you'll find that maintaing a constant tempreture is important to producing a good brew - esp for a lager (this is prob something to keep in mind for the next time you brew). Yeast appreciate a constant tempreture so the fact that it cools down to 10C at night (which prob means your 23L of beer in your fermenter maybe goes down a couple of degrees during the night time from the day time temp of 18C) could impact on your brew - what do other people think (correct me if I'm wrong)?

I think that the beer you are currently brewing will turn out fine, but it could be worth your while investing (esp during summer when it is hotter) in a fridge with temp controller (this is what I do and it has really made a difference). Instead of using the heater pad, you could set your temp controller to maintain 12C, your fridge would kick in during the day time (if required) and it prob wouldn't be required at night time (in winter anyway).

As for raising the temp, I say why not. I'd prob take a SG reading with hydrometer or refractometer (using the correct calculations to compensate for the presence of alcohol) after 2 weeks and see where I'm at. Based on the SG reading I'd assess how far I'm through fermentation, then if I was satisfied that it was around 3/4 of the way through fermenting I'd raise the tempreture.

Anyway hope this makes sense.

Cheers,
Dan

 

[Nishy]

Awesome Thanks Dan I will checkout Ebay for a second hand fridge big enough for my fermenter.

Really appreciate the comments.

Cheers

daryl

 

[itguy1953]

Awesome Thanks Dan I will checkout Ebay for a second hand fridge big enough for my fermenter.

Really appreciate the comments.

Cheers

daryl

Buying a lager fridge is a good idea, and I have one, as this gives you the flexibility to brew lagers all year around. You will need a thermostat system to turn the fridge on and off to maintain 10-12 degC. These are available on ebay at under $100.

This time of year in southern Victoria, the temp does not often get above 16degC during the day, and it falls to 5-6 degC overnight. I have found that brewing extra lagers in the open with temps moving within the 5-16degC range still gives a good result. I typically use Saflager s23 yeast for all lagers, and this gives a clean finish despite the temp fluctuations.

Even in the lager fridge the temp will fall below the 10-12 degC overnight, although it does not fall as low as the ambient temp as it is insulated.

FYI, the brew on premises establishments brew their lagers and ales in the same refrigerated room at 18degC.

Barry

 

[Nishy]

Good news thanks Barry, these brew on premise places do they brew kit beer or grain and partial types?

Thanks heaps

 

[sumo]

You will need a thermostat system to turn the fridge on and off to maintain 10-12 degC. These are available on ebay at under $100.

Hi, try for a fridgemate from the sponsers of AHB, the unit is not hard to wire up and there are plenty of threads here about them (one at least!). I have one and it is fantastic, keeping my brews at the optimum temperature. You will want to consider investing in this as when you spend $5 on a yeast you want to be able to get the best out of it.

Cheers

 

[itguy1953]

Good news thanks Barry, these brew on premise places do they brew kit beer or grain and partial types?

Thanks heaps

I have visited two BOP places in Melbourne - Barley Corn Brewers and U Brew It. Both start with liquid malt extract and hops, and boil the wort for an hour or so. They add hops during the boil, then cool the wort, and pitch the yeast. The process takes just over 1 hour to complete.

I did not go into all of their recipes (they have 100 or recipes) but I did not see any mention of adding grain or doing partials, but they might. You could certainly take along your own grain in a bag, and put this in the wort and boil it. Not sure if they will let you go through hot breaks etc, as they only have 6 kettles, and they want you finished with the kettle within an hour so, so they can let the next person start their brew. They did not have any prepared wort on display, everything was started from liquid malt and hops.

They then put the fermenter in the fridge at 18degC for 2 weeks (same for both lagers and ales), and then put the fermenter into a 1 degC fridge until the client is ready to bottle/keg it.

Then they filter the beer through a 3 stage filter system (starts at 5 micron, then 1 micron, then 0.35 micron) into a carbonating keg. The carbonation keg has a 1 micron carbonation stone attached to the CO2 inlet, and the CO2 inlet pipe is extended to the bottom of the keg (so CO2 bubbles all the way up through the brew). They then apply CO2 which diffuses through the carbonation stone and mixes instantly into the beer. They can get CO2 saturation of the beer within 5 minutes.

Then they give the clients access to a beer font, and the client fills their bottles from there and immediately cap them.

The result is ultra clean carbonated beer. No more sediment.

Barry

 

[Nishy]

Thanks again Barry, I was going to go to one of those places and give their technique a try to learn how they do it. You just saved me the trouble.

Cheers

Daryl