Rochefort 10 Clone.

[Dave70]

This is just a cut and paste job from Homebrew Chef, and seems to be very through busy recipe.

I wouldn't mind making this a Christmas project for the winter warmer rather than treading (stumbling) down the old stout path again.

I've never made a Belgian this big or complicated so thought I'd run it past you folks and see if you think he's just being tricky or on the mark.

It was either this or a barley wine..



Recipe Specifications:

Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.23 gal
OG: 1.106
FG: 1.022
Color: 51.0 SRM
IBU: 22.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Ingredients:

AmountItem Type % or IBU
6.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) (1.6 SRM) Grain 30.9 %
3.00 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM Grain 15.4 %
1.50 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 7.7 %
1.50 lb Caravienne Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 7.7 %
1.00 lb Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 5.1 %
0.69 lb Date Sugar (3.0 SRM) Sugar 3.5 %
0.50 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 2.6 %
0.25 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 1.3 %
1.00 tsppH 5.2 (Mash ) Misc
1.00 oz Kent Goldings [5.90%] (60 min) Hops 11.3 IBU
1.50 ozHallertauer Hersbrucker [2.90%] (60 min) Hops 8.5 IBU
0.50 ozHallertauer Hersbrucker [2.90%] (30 min) Hops 2.2 IBU
5.00 gm Coriander Seed (Boil 15.0 min) Spice
1.00 lb Brown Sugar, Dark (50.0 SRM) (Boil 15.0 min) Sugar 5.1 %
1.00 lb Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) (Boil 15.0 min) Sugar 5.1 %
1.00 lb Candi Sugar, Dark (275.0 SRM) (Boil 15.0 min) Sugar 5.1 %
1.00 lb Dark Rock Candi Syrup (500.0 SRM) (Boil 15.0 min) Sugar 5.1 %
1.00 lb Turbinado (10.0 SRM) (Boil 15.0 min) Sugar 5.1 %
1.00 item Servomyces Yeast Nutrient (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1.00 tspYeast Nutrient (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Belgian Abbey II (Wyeast Labs #1762) Yeast2000 ML Starter
Total Grain Weight: 13.75 lb
Rochefort 10 Clone Brew Sheet

Rochefort 10 Clone BeerSmith file
Mash Schedule:

Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Gluten Rest Add 20.63 qt of water at 143.5 F 135.0 F 30 min
Beta Rest Decoct 3.24 qt of mash and boil it 145.0 F 30 min
Full Beta Rest Decoct 7.44 qt of mash and boil it 165.0 F 30 min
Mashout Decoct 3.71 qt of mash and boil it 172.0 F 15 min


Notes:

For Bottling, added 2 oz rock candy, 2 oz turbonado sugar and 2 oz dark candi syrup

 

[manticle]

My understanding is that he brewed that before visiting the brewery and would simplify the recipe if brewing again.

I brewed a double batch of a homage to R10 with vitalstatistix recently. I'll hunt up the recipe. I plan to bulk age it for around a year (so another 8-10 months).

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=57359

 

[Dave70]

Yeah, I'd like to know where he trimmed the fat. That date sugar looks interesting but.
I thought the monks claimed they didn't use coriander in Roachfort beers?

 

[gap]

There are a large number of ingredients in that recipe the monks
would not have used.

 

[Nick JD]

Never thought I'd see a beer recipe that complex.

Does beer get better the more ingredients it has?

 

[manticle]

Yeah, I'd like to know where he trimmed the fat. That date sugar looks interesting but.
I thought the monks claimed they didn't use coriander in Roachfort beers?

Pretty sure they use a tiny bit in the 10.

From my memory of the brewing network show based around Sean's trip, it was traditionally used due to some kind of preserving characteristic.

Worth hunting up - will give you a lot of good info.

 

[CosmicBertie]

I made a Rochefort 8 clone earlier on in the year, I was under the impression that the difference between the 8 and 10 was the amount of candy sugar added.

4.75Kg Pilsner
0.75Kg CaraMunich
0.25Kg Special B
0.25Kg Corn (flaked)
0.1Kg Special Roast
0.65Kg Dark candy sugar

56g Styrian - 75mins
24g Hallertauer - 30mins
12g Hallertauer - 5mins
10g Coriander seed - 5mins

It was very good. Unfortunately the bottle I bought from G+G to compare with was oxidised and tasted like sherry

 

[black_labb]

let me start this by saying that I haven't brewed many belgians and havent yet brewed a dark strong belgian. I have drank quite a few while travelling in europe and I also know that the belgian brewers tend to use much simpler recipes than they appear to be.

I'd cut out the dark brown sugar. It seems every american recipe adds brown sugar. (I'm assuming this is an american recipe due to the complexity, sorry if I'm wrong). I'd use more dark candy sugar instead (if you make it yourself adding some tracle/mollasses to the candy sugar while making it works well, or even brown sugar while making it). I probably wouldn't bother with the clear candy sugar either. Not sure about the date sugar, I'd probably leave it out as it's not going to be traditional and hard to find as far as I know.

I think the wheat in there is just because the brewer wants it for head retention. I don't know if it is neccesary or wether it is used by rochefort. I wouldn't be too fussed with the wheat.

I'd use munich instead of the marris otter

I'd probably drop the caravienne, I don't think it would add much to the recipe. the extra dark candy sugar would cover the extra changes in terms of colour/flavour.

I would probably only use one hop for the bittering. I don't know why they feel the need to use 2 different hops for bittering in a beer like this.

I would think that cosmic bertie's recipe would be better, though I'd use carafa instead of the special roast and maybe use some munich in there, though i think it would turn out very well as is.

Post some results when it's brewed and aged!!!

 

[Dave70]

I made a Rochefort 8 clone earlier on in the year, I was under the impression that the difference between the 8 and 10 was the amount of candy sugar added.

4.75Kg Pilsner
0.75Kg CaraMunich
0.25Kg Special B
0.25Kg Corn (flaked)
0.1Kg Special Roast
0.65Kg Dark candy sugar

56g Styrian - 75mins
24g Hallertauer - 30mins
12g Hallertauer - 5mins
10g Coriander seed - 5mins

It was very good. Unfortunately the bottle I bought from G+G to compare with was oxidised and tasted like sherry

Step mash or single?

 

[Jazzafish]

That is a big beer...
Using ~29% sugars seems a bit much. Most I have used is 14% and I had to work a bit to get it to attenuate, so if you want to add this much I suggest you add the sugars late in the ferment.

 

[Swinging Beef]

Two years ago, me and three other good home brewers all brewed the R10 recipe in jamil's book with the same ingredients at around the same time.

For different reasons, all of them turned out 'not good'.

R10 is a God.
Attempting to get close to it will only driv eyou mad, and potentially, like it did for us, ruin your enjoyment of the real thing for yers.

 

[Dave70]

That is a big beer...
Using ~29% sugars seems a bit much. Most I have used is 14% and I had to work a bit to get it to attenuate, so if you want to add this much I suggest you add the sugars late in the ferment.

It is a big beer. Frankly I think the creator is having a little tug. If anyone could taste all the subtleties and layers in that recipe, good luck to them.
I think up to 20% sugars was the upper limit recommended in Brew like a Monk.
Still, that date sugar looks interesting and seems to be little more than finely (like food processor finely) chopped dates. I might dehydrate a pack and toss a couple of handfuls in after high krausen and see what happens. I like dates.

Might as well just call it a Belgian dark ale while I'm at it..

 

[Dave70]

Attempting to get close to it will only driv eyou mad, and potentially, like it did for us, ruin your enjoyment of the real thing for yers.

Luckily for me I haven't tasted the real thing, and at $12+delivery for .330ml that's not a situation likley to change any time soon.
If it's anything like the Chimay blue I 'enjoyed' the other night, I wont be bothering. (From Dans, mind you)

http://www.beerstore.com.au/beer/rochefort-trappiste-10-beer

 

[mikk]

I made a Rochefort 8 clone earlier on in the year, I was under the impression that the difference between the 8 and 10 was the amount of candy sugar added.

4.75Kg Pilsner
0.75Kg CaraMunich
0.25Kg Special B
0.25Kg Corn (flaked)
0.1Kg Special Roast
0.65Kg Dark candy sugar

56g Styrian - 75mins
24g Hallertauer - 30mins
12g Hallertauer - 5mins
10g Coriander seed - 5mins

It was very good. Unfortunately the bottle I bought from G+G to compare with was oxidised and tasted like sherry

I've brewed this recipe using WLP530, and used Carafa I in place of the 'special roast', and added a small amount of normal sugar, and some extra dark candy sugar syrup too to get it up to Rochefort 10 strength.

It's quite a good beer, but still not as good as the real deal. It's important to note that by the time it gets to Aus, most Belgian beers taste pretty crappy compared to the exact same beer in Belgium. This includes belgian beers i've bought from Dans, Slowbeer (particularly poor quality), & Belgian Beer Cafe's- all varying degrees of disappointing. Hence trying to clone a Rochefort you've only tasted locally isn't the best to aim for! Needless to say, i've given up on buying Belgians locally.

I'm about to brew it again though, & try a different mash/fermentation procedure to try to get it a bit closer to the real deal. Rochefort 8/10 & Westvleteren 8 are my favourite beers ever, so if i could even get a beer 90% as good, i'd be happy...

Dave 70, if you're in Sydney let me know & you can try some.

Mash Schedule used was 10@50, 30@63, 30@66, 30@72, 10@78, yeast pitched at 19 deg & allowed to rise to 22 after a few days. Sugars added after a week of fermentation.

 

[neonmeate]

Luckily for me I haven't tasted the real thing, and at $12+delivery for .330ml that's not a situation likley to change any time soon.
If it's anything like the Chimay blue I 'enjoyed' the other night, I wont be bothering. (From Dans, mind you)

http://www.beerstore.com.au/beer/rochefort-trappiste-10-beer

it's a lot better than chimay blue.

 

[drtomc]

I was recently given a Rochefort 10 for my birthday, the same day as I was brewing a BDSA. Bummer I didn't get to drink it before planning the BDSA which was more inspired by Chimay Blue. Chimay Blue is good, but the Rochefort 10 is easily head and shoulders above, in my opinion.

T.

 

[neonmeate]

pity you can't get this stuff anymore - according to craftbrewer at least, the real thing used by rochefort - as far as i can understand not just caramelised white (cane) sugar but actually the unrefined beet sugar byproduct (plus some caramelisation?). i coughed up for it and used it in a dark belgian ale (not a rochefort clone) and it gave a lovely earthy sweet flavour i've never got in beer before.

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=939

perhaps you could throw some beetroot in your mash...

 

[Swinging Beef]

Luckily for me I haven't tasted the real thing, and at $12+delivery for .330ml that's not a situation likley to change any time soon.
If it's anything like the Chimay blue I 'enjoyed' the other night, I wont be bothering. (From Dans, mind you)

http://www.beerstore.com.au/beer/rochefort-trappiste-10-beer

Err.. so why do you want 20 litres of the stuff if you dont even know what it tastes like?
Dont get me wrong, I reckon R10 is a spectacular beer with no equal (except maybe St bernardus quad) but it is surely an acquired taste.

Why not make yourself an awesome triple instead?

 

[CosmicBertie]

Step mash or single?

Step mash. Something like 15mins@53C, then 60mins@68.

I added the dark candy sugar fairly early on in the boil. To stop it from dropping straight to the bottom and burning, I dunked the jug containing the syrup in the kettle to dissolve it, then swirled it a bit to mix it up. Its a syrup too, not the hard rock candy which, from my investigations, is the wrong stuff to add. Like others have said, you can make your own from white sugar, but this stuff is made from sugar beet. Its more akin to a black treacle/molasses than caramelised sugar. And its quite expensive too, although I only used 2/3 of the tub.

Fermented with Abbey Ale II at 18C for 3 days, then ramped it up 1C/day till ferment had completed. I wouldnt say it was a clone, but its a damn fine drop, malty with subtle banana/clove tones, definitely not a session beer though.

If you're anywhere near Sunbury, Vic, let me know, theres still a glass or two left in the keg

 

[CosmicBertie]

It's quite a good beer, but still not as good as the real deal. It's important to note that by the time it gets to Aus, most Belgian beers taste pretty crappy compared to the exact same beer in Belgium. This includes belgian beers i've bought from Dans, Slowbeer (particularly poor quality), & Belgian Beer Cafe's- all varying degrees of disappointing. Hence trying to clone a Rochefort you've only tasted locally isn't the best to aim for! Needless to say, i've given up on buying Belgians locally.

I've only ever drunk Rochforte in Belgium, and yeah, I wont buy them over here again after the last bottle.

I am endeavoring to find a Kwak recipe though, if anyone has one. My all-time favourite beer.