Rochefort 10 Clone.

[CosmicBertie]

pity you can't get this stuff anymore - according to craftbrewer at least, the real thing used by rochefort - as far as i can understand not just caramelised white (cane) sugar but actually the unrefined beet sugar byproduct (plus some caramelisation?). i coughed up for it and used it in a dark belgian ale (not a rochefort clone) and it gave a lovely earthy sweet flavour i've never got in beer before.

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=939

perhaps you could throw some beetroot in your mash...

This is the stuff I used Candi Syrup

I hate the word 'candi' too. Very American. Its candy. Candi is the crystalised rock stuff.

 

[neonmeate]

I hate the word 'candi' too. Very American. Its candy. Candi is the crystalised rock stuff.

i think candi is actually just French in origin?! (sucre candi = crystallised sugar)

 

[Dave70]

Err.. so why do you want 20 litres of the stuff if you dont even know what it tastes like?
Dont get me wrong, I reckon R10 is a spectacular beer with no equal (except maybe St bernardus quad) but it is surely an acquired taste.

Why not make yourself an awesome triple instead?

Cos I already have about a dozen tallies of tripple, (and a few golden strong's) sitting in a cool dark corner of the garage. I wish I had of kept my hands off instead picking through them. They're coming on around 10 months now and have taught me that a big beer needs some time under its belt. For 8%ers, they go down to easy
Plus, I'm the only person I know who enjoys a bottle of Floreffe Prima Melior now and again, so I suspect it's unlikely I'd be repelled by R10.

 

[Dave70]

I've brewed this recipe using WLP530, and used Carafa I in place of the 'special roast', and added a small amount of normal sugar, and some extra dark candy sugar syrup too to get it up to Rochefort 10 strength.

It's quite a good beer, but still not as good as the real deal. It's important to note that by the time it gets to Aus, most Belgian beers taste pretty crappy compared to the exact same beer in Belgium. This includes belgian beers i've bought from Dans, Slowbeer (particularly poor quality), & Belgian Beer Cafe's- all varying degrees of disappointing. Hence trying to clone a Rochefort you've only tasted locally isn't the best to aim for! Needless to say, i've given up on buying Belgians locally.

I'm about to brew it again though, & try a different mash/fermentation procedure to try to get it a bit closer to the real deal. Rochefort 8/10 & Westvleteren 8 are my favourite beers ever, so if i could even get a beer 90% as good, i'd be happy...

Dave 70, if you're in Sydney let me know & you can try some.

Mash Schedule used was 10@50, 30@63, 30@66, 30@72, 10@78, yeast pitched at 19 deg & allowed to rise to 22 after a few days. Sugars added after a week of fermentation.

Thanks mate, If I get five seconds to scratch my arse any time soon, I take you up on that.

Funny you say 'by the time gets to Aus'. There was a brewer - or maby a judge - talking in Brew like a Monk who claimed it worked in favor of beers shipped to America vs the local product. The imports had a leisurely extra couple of month to bob around in transit in the bowels of the ship whereas the local micro's were under pressure to turn their product in around 27 days.

Maby stuff earmarked for Aus gets to sit on the open deck with the tarps rolled back..

 

[Dave70]

I've decided not to bother with a clone and give myself the get out of jail free option of 'in the style of'. Actually its more of an experiment.

To that end, here's some dates that I'll be adding to the secondary.

After about 5 hours in the dehydrator, this lot had lost about 100g from their original weight. My idea was to make my own version of date sugar and get them as crumbly as possible without caramelizing them.

The result was less successful than I hoped for. These things are tough. They managed to trip the thermal overload on the food processor three times before I called uncle.
I think if you tried to chop them up moist however, you'd wind up with clumps of goo.

This unit has the balls to shred tree branches but was stopped in its tracks by the humble date. There must be a better way.

I'm probably going to base the recipe on Jamils and have a play around with loosing some of the base malt in favor of sugars to get it up where it needs to be.

 

[mikk]

Thanks mate, If I get five seconds to scratch my arse any time soon, I take you up on that.

Funny you say 'by the time gets to Aus'. There was a brewer - or maby a judge - talking in Brew like a Monk who claimed it worked in favor of beers shipped to America vs the local product. The imports had a leisurely extra couple of month to bob around in transit in the bowels of the ship whereas the local micro's were under pressure to turn their product in around 27 days.

Maby stuff earmarked for Aus gets to sit on the open deck with the tarps rolled back..

I remember reading that too, but i think that would only apply for the American example given. Several months in a boat at equitorial temperatures on the way to Aus is easily enough to pretty much destroy the quality of the belgian beers we get here, in comparison to those that stay in the Northern Hemisphere.

Good luck with the dates, hope you end up with a great winter beer!

 

[Dave70]

Here's the recipe.
Kind of turning into a self indulgent log just for me this thread, isn't it..

For 20L


Pils malt 5 kg
Munich 1 kg
Crystal 40 1kg
Special B .350g
Chocolate .250g

Hallertau 5.2 - 40g @ 70 min
5.2 - 30g @ 30 min

Caramelized sugar - 350g added last 5 min to boil
Dark brown sugar - 350g added after fermentation settles down
Racked onto .500g of chopped dates. Maby add some more depending on how it's tasting after a week or so.

Those dates are about 73g of carbs and 46g of sugar per 100g. Could wind up interesting.

Mashed at 63 deg for 90 min.


Wyeast 1762 at 18 to 20 deg and 2L starter.

OG - 1.094
FG - 1.020

ABV 9.68%
IBU 33.7

Age under the house until June, at least.



Feel free to pick the eye's out of it or give me a discrete golf clap.

 

[kelbygreen]

not much speacial b or chocolate or is that meant to say .350kg and .250kg?

 

[Dave70]

not much speacial b or chocolate or is that meant to say .350kg and .250kg?

I just had an idea for the worlds smallest mash..

Yeah, .350kg & .250kg.

 

[gava]

I take it no one has had much success with making a 'close to' clone of this?

Me and a mate pretty much drank beer delux dry of this last year.. looove it!

-gav

 

[tanukibrewer]

Brewed a BSDA based on the one in Jamil Z and John P book,I inverted the dark sugar.Definitely not a session beer,very strong and very sweet.Will see how it ages over the next few years.

 

[gava]

Looks nice!!

How long has it been bottled? know of the sweet spot for a rochefort type beers age?

I'd like to get a nice one of theses down but once I see "years" to an aging its might be easier just go buy some rochefort, unless there is a recipe thats close.

Love the beer, Dont love the day after having the beer

-Gav

 

[tanukibrewer]

10 months in the bottles so far and have 1 keg of it sitting around.Nice now that its getting cold to just have a small glass of it.I reckon if you like Belgians you will like what you decide to clone/brew cause they are big drinks with big flavours that make you think while you drink them.

 

[tanukibrewer]

Oldest beer I have drunk is about 11 years old,a Coopers Millennium ale 1999 and that was damn fine.
Not sure how long these darker more complex brews age for?

 

[Mikedub]

My last Dark Strong is dark and strong and has an overpowering vegemite flavour, I'm thinking its not to style
(stupid autolysis)

 

[TSMill]

Oldest beer I have drunk is about 11 years old,a Coopers Millennium ale 1999 and that was damn fine.
Not sure how long these darker more complex brews age for?

Coopers or Hahn? I'm hoping the latter as I just found my 2 long lost bottles, so good to hear it's drinking well (or was 3 years ago!).

 

[Maxt]

Enjoying my rochefort clone (based on Jamils). Mine is 6 months old...getting better every month. I like a small glass every few weeks.

 

[tanukibrewer]

Yeah it was a Hahn,wasnt my bottle just lucky enough to try.Post a pic of the the beer when you crack it.Wish I'd taken a photo of it.

 

[sinkas]

I made the clone according to The brewing Network show about rochefort, all belg malts all candy sugar etc,
it was good, but not great,
the boozieness seem to make it tast dry even though it was slightly underattenuated, had a bottle the other day, which must be 4 or so years old, its ok, but certinly not impoved with age