Recipe Advice For A Deep, Piney IPA

[SeeFar]

Folks,

Looking to do a partial boil (using unhopped extract) to turn out something similar to the Vale IPA. For those who haven’t tried it, it’s a deep colored, toffee/caramely beer with a strong pine hop without a lot of bitterness.

Previously I’ve only ever done extract brews and played with sugars and hops. I’ve just done an IPA and pale ale partial boil but they are still in the fermenter. I’d like to plan out my next shot but don’t even know where to start with this.

I plan on graduating to full mash and am using these processes as stepping stones to learn myself up. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[pcqypcqy]

Cascade hops are probably a good option for pine. Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is basically just Cascade as the late hop, and it goes pretty good.

Have a look at some hop falvour descriptors and go with what takes your fancy.

 

[Droopy Brew]

Been a while since I have done an extract beer but used to be able to knock out a fairly decent one.
I'm not sure what hops are used in the Vale IPA but will work on the brief of piney aroma/taste, reasonable bitterness and carmel malts.

Steep some grains in 5L of water - 250g Cr 60 - 80 will do. 30 minutes at around 65C.
Add about 400g of dry malt extract to get the wort to around 1.04 and bring to the boil.
Boil for 15 minutes with 50 g of either Cascade ,Citra, Ammarilo or Mosaic in at the start of the boil and 100g Simcoe with 5 minutes to go. This will hopefully balance some fruit with the pine but if you want real piney use chinook at 15 minutes.
Poor into a (sanitised) fermenter and mix in 2 cans of Morgans pale malt extract and another 400g of dry malt extract.

This will give you about a 5.7% ABV beer with IBUs about 40.

 

[manticle]

As above - chinook has pine in spades. Simcoe too so go hard on those early, maybe a touch late as well and balance with something a bit fruitier like cascade and/or amarillo late (my preference - not so much for emulating vale)

Actually just read you want to keep ibu down so don't go too hard, too early. And having checked the website, galaxy, citra and nelson sauvin are the hops they use.

Use a quality uk crystal - maybe simpsons heritage or a mix of medium and dark. Otherwise caramunich does a decent job too

 

[Mardoo]

Eureka - interesting combo of pine and stone fruit.

 

[SeeFar]

Thanks, Folks, appreciate the responses.

So I'd figured on leading with Chinook and maybe following with Moetuka and maybe Amarillo. Seems I'm on the right path with that at least. The part I was in the dark about was the grain. And based on what you chaps are saying the base should be pale malt extract - easy done.

This is the bit that's new to me:
250g Cr 60 - 80
uk crystal - maybe simpsons heritage or a mix of medium and dark. Otherwise caramunich does a decent job too

Am I right to say that these are all specialty grains of differing kinds and levels of roasting? All I've use so far is 200gm of pale crystal in my current brews, specialty grains are something I'm still learning about, as well as learning where to purchase from. These kids look like they have a great selection and are no more than a bike ride from my home - http://www.belcobrewsupplies.com.au/index.php?route=product/category&path=70_72

Thanks again for the advice, mucho appreciado!

 

[Droopy Brew]

YEp that is right. So they can be steeped and dont need to be mashed. One I absolutely love and will give you plenty of caramel and toffee is CaraAroma which is a very dark crystal (400EBC or thereabouts). If you used say 80g of it and 120g of Caramunich (about 90 EBC) you will get those flavours you are after.

Basically the higher the EBC, the darker the malt.

 

[Coodgee]

250g Cr 60 - 80

if it's a US recipe that is probably 60-80 Lovibond which is roughly 120-160 EBC which is what Australian and British crystals are measured in. That range is generally a medium UK crystal.

If you want strong pine just stick to the Chinook, or it pairs very well with cascade. if you add Moetuka and Amarillo late you'll drown out the pine. This site has what it considers piney hops. But be warned, one man's pine is another man's mango:

https://ychhops.com/varieties/aroma/piney

 

[pirateagenda]

The vale IPA has galaxy, nelson sauvin and citra.... not the piniest of hops.

I'd go simcoe and chinook. Simcoe by itself is a really nice balance of pine and fruitiness.

One of my favourite brews i've done is an all simcoe 10 minute ipa with simcoe dry hop. 1.06 OG, 60 IBU, 95% maris otter 5% medium crystal.

 

[Coodgee]

^ I have heard that depending on whether it's harvested early in the season or late, simcoe provides pine or fruit flavours.

 

[Droopy Brew]

250g Cr 60 - 80

if it's a US recipe that is probably 60-80 Lovibond which is roughly 120-160 EBC which is what Australian and British crystals are measured in. That range is generally a medium UK crystal.

If you want strong pine just stick to the Chinook, or it pairs very well with cascade. if you add Moetuka and Amarillo late you'll drown out the pine. This site has what it considers piney hops. But be warned, one man's pine is another man's mango:

https://ychhops.com/varieties/aroma/piney

Nope, EBC. It is just a recipe i made up. I often refer to crystals by the EBC- C30, C50, C90 etc. 250g of 120-160 would probably be a bit dark I reckon.

 

[SeeFar]

Droopy Brew, Coodgee - thanks very much, really appreciate the information.

Pirateagenda - You're right, Vale IPA isn't that piney, I should have been more clear that the reference to Vale was more regarding the deep colour and toffee-ness of the flavour rather than the hop character. And given what Coodgee says regards hops your advice regards Simcoe makes sense.

 

[Coodgee]

Nope, EBC. It is just a recipe i made up. I often refer to crystals by the EBC- C30, C50, C90 etc. 250g of 120-160 would probably be a bit dark I reckon.

oh sorry I didn't read you original message, just the quote so I got a bit confused.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

for 'deep pine' try using some columbus with the chinook & simcoe - it adds a dank earth/spiciness that plays well with them (and other citrusy hops).

 

[SeeFar]

Moving onto this tomorrow but there is a small issue.

The only dry extract my local had was Wheat Unhopped Spraymalt.
Ingredients: Malted wheat and malted barley
EBC: 10

What sort of effect will this have on the end result as opposed to using standard DME?

Any advice gratefully accepted!

 

[manticle]

You'll be fine.

Wheat has higher protein content and will add to body and head retention but it's still malt at the end of the day and your focus is hop profile.

 

[SeeFar]

Great, thanks very much.

 

[SeeFar]

Bottled this last night, not sure how drinkable it will be at approx 11% booze points (1091 - 1010).

All I could taste was alcohol. I didn't get the deep toffee flavour and colour I was looking for either.

Back to the drawing board on this one.

 

[mtb]

What's your temp control method at the moment?

Don't go back to the drawing board just yet. Age it for a while - it hasn't been very long yet - and sample it as you go.

 

[mtb]

Consider also mashing higher, 1010 for a beer that big is a bit low. You want some body in there.