Re using yeast slurry questions

[boybrewer]

Related to the Hefe pitching tips, roughly how many billion cells should I pitch into a batch of 1.051 wort and a batch of 1.083 wort?

(I'll be preparing a WLP300 starter so I've got enough for both batches).

I'm not a big cell counter I just pitch what ever the amount of yeast is in the WLP300 vial straight on top of the wort and let the yeasties do their thing . Just experiment with what you have and see what differences it makes when pitching a higher amount of yeast against a lower amount for you will get different flavour profiles from the different pitching rates . Brewing beer is not set in concrete do what you think if it works great if it doesn't look at what you did and then change it .

 

[laxation]

I used Mr Malty's calculator

Just had a look at this... is it as simple as going to the Repitch From Slurry, and take that #ml of yeast needed number?

Eg. if it says 90ml, I need to get 90ml of slurry for the next brew? (+20%)

Or is it 90ml of washed yeast?

 

[boybrewer]

What do you mean 'when it's done'? What are you looking for?

When you keep it for years, where do you store it?

How can you tell when fermentation is finished without a hydrometer reading ? I have dedicated fridges for storing all beer related perishable goods .

 

[boybrewer]

Just had a look at this... is it as simple as going to the Repitch From Slurry, and take that #ml of yeast needed number?

Eg. if it says 90ml, I need to get 90ml of slurry for the next brew? (+20%)

Or is it 90ml of washed yeast?

Look up yeast washing there is a lot of info on this forum . Just get a cup full of slurry wash it and if you get half a cup of yeast you can pitch it or use it as a starter. You could even store some of it .

 

[laxation]

You said you put the yeast with the boiled water + DME on your hot water system until its done - you wait until the hydrometer is steady like a regular brew?

 

[boybrewer]

You said you put the yeast with the boiled water + DME on your hot water system until its done - you wait until the hydrometer is steady like a regular brew?

Basically make 1.040 starter ( usually a cup of DME in 1500mls of water boil it for around ten minutes or so to sanitise the wort chill it pitch the yeast keep it in a warm not hot but warm place give it a swirl every now and then . You can pitch the starter at high krausen or wait till its finished, then store it in the fridge for a day or two until you are ready to pitch . I don't use the hydrometer when making a starter as I can see when the krausen has finished and then I let it sit for a day or so until I am ready to pitch the yeast .Or in your case make sure the hydrometer is sanitised and yes wait till the reading is steady like a regular brew .

 

[Parks]

Well maybe I have been doing it wrong as I have tried repitched Heffe and never got any of those flavours . And don't just say bollocks to this give your reason so that people can learn like Lord Raja's post . For all I know you could be a **** brewer . But what would I know as I haven't tasted any of your beers

Yep, the key is purely pitching rate unless you have a yeast blend then it's possible the ratio can get thrown off.

Pitching a vial is an extreme under pitch and I would never recommend it. It may work but I never got consistent results in doing so so it's a big no-no now.

 

[lost at sea]

today i kegged a dark mild with 1318 london ale III, had an ordinary bitter in the cube waiting, as soon as the mild was in the keg, the bitter was dumped straight onto the 1318 cake, trub and all. 2 hours later shes cranking away.... i figure if i get 2 brews out of a single wyeast, effectively halving its cost, then im happy....bugger washing yeasts i say... too much effort for this fella...

 

[Parks]

bugger washing yeasts i say... too much effort for this fella...

Overbuild your starter and collect before pitch - it's the only way :chug:

FYI: this is what I mean

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Well I had my first go at reusing yeast from my last batch after having minimal trubb and some really nice looking yeast cake. So I thought well I'm brewing again in a few days so I might aswell use it and see how it goes. I put down a double brew day yesterday. The yeast came from a brew that only had one hop so I decided to experiment a little . One lot of yeast I washed the other I didnt as I have read mixed reports some saying you should wash and others saying it stresses the yeast. I used Mr Malty's calculator and also have read that people usually pitch about 20% more so this is what I decided to do aswell , not sure if this is right? . Anyway after I put the first brew down just before I was ready to transfer second brew to fermenter I checked original brew and was shocked that after about 3 hours she was already kicking into gear. Once second brew was done I checked that 2 hours latter and that was well under way aswell . Both brews were at 18 degrees fairly quickly and I manged to get temp down to 21 before pitching yeast.

My questions are as I have only used packet yeast in the past is this normal for a slurry to kick off so quick ?
Was I right to slightly over pitch?
Also is there any risks of ruining a beer with yeast kicking off so quickly , buggered if I could find any info on the optimum lag time if any for yeast to kick in.

Sorry for the long ramble just really curious

is this normal for a slurry to kick off so quick ? Yes.

Was I right to slightly over pitch?
Slight is the key here. You get good results on both with variable flavour character. I'm kinda paranoid about under pitching but it can have great results too. I've done that experiment. Take thorough notes of these details because if you get that winning beer eg: One of my highest rated home brews It happened to be noted that I slightly under pitched by Mrmalty calculations.

Over pitched can be a fast and furious fermentation and slightly under pitched can have the lag time before kicking into gear.
Re- take all notes of these details.
Temp- I pressure ferment starting at the lowest temp of the yeasts range. Finishing ferment at the highest temp of the yeast range.

 

[Gloveski]

is this normal for a slurry to kick off so quick ? Yes.

Was I right to slightly over pitch?
Slight is the key here. You get good results on both with variable flavour character. I'm kinda paranoid about under pitching but it can have great results too. I've done that experiment. Take thorough notes of these details because if you get that winning beer eg: One of my highest rated home brews It happened to be noted that I slightly under pitched by Mrmalty calculations.

Over pitched can be a fast and furious fermentation and slightly under pitched can have the lag time before kicking into gear.
Re- take all notes of these details.
Temp- I pressure ferment starting at the lowest temp of the yeasts range. Finishing ferment at the highest temp of the yeast range.

Great info mate I am taking notes on every brew

 

[Quokka42]

My experience is slightly overpitching and starting cool works really well, too. I just collect enough slurry to nearly fill a sterilised vegemite jar and the amount of yeast that settles out (100ml?) seems about right. Don't ever try the advice of dropping another beer onto the full yeast crop - it turned out really ***** for me.

As for stressing your yeast - I say go easy on the hard-working little buggers, nothing good can come from causing your workers undue stress. Are there yeast psychologists?

 

[goatchop41]

Well maybe I have been doing it wrong as I have tried repitched Heffe and never got any of those flavours . And don't just say bollocks to this give your reason so that people can learn like Lord Raja's post . For all I know you could be a **** brewer . But what would I know as I haven't tasted any of your beers

My reason should be pretty clear...it's a direct disagreement with what you stated. You can repitch and get those flavour compounds, whether over/under/optimal pitch.

You made a very black and white statement (as if it were a well accepted fact) that it could not be used again to get those flavours. Which is wrong. You may have been unlucky enough to have had the one or two batches out of 10,000,000 repitches of a hefe yeast that won't throw out those flavours again.
If you had said "in my experience...." instead of stating it as fact, then it would be different.

 

[goatchop41]

While I'm at it and being a disagreeable *******, FYI it's 'hefe', not 'heffe'.
There, I said it.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

MOD: Gents, for the sake of avoiding a faeces throwing episode, can we keep it civil. This could be a great brewing discussion if done correctly. Anything resembling a personal attack or provocation to commit same will be removed and warnings issued. Not saying it's there, but just a warning to keep it on the level.

For my part, I should have been more descriptive as to my disagreement on a brewing basis, which I will now do:

Pitching onto a yeast cake does work. But like all yeast based exercises, it's a matter of getting the right colony for the right job. As we are dealing in relatively (relative to the professionals) micro batch exercises, and therefore our results can wildly vary. My experience with Hefe beers, is that an underpitch works. If that's from a yeast cake, it is simply take an 'underpitch' quantity from the yeast cake and go and pitch that. But like all micro-level home brew exercises, it might take some experimenting to work a system that is the equivalent of millennia old breweries standard system.

My honest opinion re: Hefe beers is, rather than pitching on a yeast cake. Get hold of a sachet/smack pack. Build a yeast colony where you can freeze/save the split colony (the 'let's freeze some yeast' thread is awesome) to cover costs. That way, you can use Mr Malty and start from a basis where a guessed quantifiable amount of yeast can be obtained. And it's cheap.

For my yeast cake beers - I did the above with the split colony. After splitting the colony, one vial was used. Pitched a low grav beer, fermented out, and then the higher grav beer when onto the yeast cake. Easy enough. And a $2.50 vial was used for 2 beers, with results being what I expected and wanted.

 

[boybrewer]

While I'm at it and being a disagreeable *******, FYI it's 'hefe', not 'heffe'.
There, I said it.

Ok so in my experience I have not been able to reproduce those flavours when repitching the hefe yeast. Its not a matter of being a disagreeable ******* its just a matter of backing up the statement like I said your a **** brewer but I have never tasted your beers .I am aware that hefeweizen is spelt with one "f" it is also known as fat finger syndromme .Haven't you ever miss spelt a word unintetionally or typed the same word twice and not realised .

 

[boybrewer]

MOD: Gents, for the sake of avoiding a faeces throwing episode, can we keep it civil. This could be a great brewing discussion if done correctly. Anything resembling a personal attack or provocation to commit same will be removed and warnings issued. Not saying it's there, but just a warning to keep it on the level.

For my part, I should have been more descriptive as to my disagreement on a brewing basis, which I will now do:

Pitching onto a yeast cake does work. But like all yeast based exercises, it's a matter of getting the right colony for the right job. As we are dealing in relatively (relative to the professionals) micro batch exercises, and therefore our results can wildly vary. My experience with Hefe beers, is that an underpitch works. If that's from a yeast cake, it is simply take an 'underpitch' quantity from the yeast cake and go and pitch that. But like all micro-level home brew exercises, it might take some experimenting to work a system that is the equivalent of millennia old breweries standard system.

My honest opinion re: Hefe beers is, rather than pitching on a yeast cake. Get hold of a sachet/smack pack. Build a yeast colony where you can freeze/save the split colony (the 'let's freeze some yeast' thread is awesome) to cover costs. That way, you can use Mr Malty and start from a basis where a guessed quantifiable amount of yeast can be obtained. And it's cheap.

For my yeast cake beers - I did the above with the split colony. After splitting the colony, one vial was used. Pitched a low grav beer, fermented out, and then the higher grav beer when onto the yeast cake. Easy enough. And a $2.50 vial was used for 2 beers, with results being what I expected and wanted.

Actually what you said was fair for you backed your statement up . I was only having a dig at goatchop41 for he did not back up the statement he made . Like I said your a **** brewer ........ and backed it up with a statement . I am not here to throw **** around I am here to learn like everybody else as people should not have to hide behind a keyboard to be mean because they themselves had a crappy day and want to take it out other people who they have never met and know nothing about them . Fortunately I have thick skin and can give as good as the next person .As you can see from my posts I gave good information , which in one instance may not have been worded correctly .

 

[TSMill]

I am aware that hefeweizen is spelt with one "f" it is also known as fat finger syndromme .

Greatest post of all timme!

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Fortunately I have thick skin and can give as good as the next person .As you can see from my posts I gave good information , which in one instance may not have been worded correctly .

No problem, and not directed to anyone in particular. I've just seen (too many times) these things start with a tiny bit of disagreement, someone takes exception to something and suddenly it descends into personal attacks. Add in the fact that some of us like to read this site whilst partaking in the hobby, and that can add to the problem. I've modded (and sometimes left alone) some interesting drunken rants.

 

[goatchop41]

Actually what you said was fair for you backed your statement up . I was only having a dig at goatchop41 for he did not back up the statement he made . Like I said your a **** brewer ........ and backed it up with a statement . I am not here to throw **** around I am here to learn like everybody else as people should not have to hide behind a keyboard to be mean because they themselves had a crappy day and want to take it out other people who they have never met and know nothing about them . Fortunately I have thick skin and can give as good as the next person .As you can see from my posts I gave good information , which in one instance may not have been worded correctly .

I pointed out a misleading statement that was made to a user who was clearly very inexperienced, and would not have known that your statement about repitching that particular sort of yeast was a personal anecdote, as opposed to fact.
Yes, I may have pointed it out like an irate prick (which I am), but there was no personal attacking, nor any 'mean-ness' to it (nor will there be any), just a straight disagreement. That's how discussions work. If one thinks otherwise, then perhaps that skin isn't as thick as initially thought.
It was also a situation where I don't think that there was any "backing up" needed - straight up disagreement with the initial statement about not repitching hefe yeast implies that I am saying that you certainly can get the signature hefe flavours from repitched hefe yeast. If we are talking about 'backing up with evidence', well the initial statement was based on personal opinion, not evidence, so what's good for the goose is good for the gander......anyhow, that's all that I have to say about that, back on topic now......

I am always interested when people claim that underpitching is needed to really get good flavour profiles from a hefe yeast (I also read it a lot about Belgian yeasts). Is there any actual evidence to back this up? It comes up all of the time on forums, yet I've never seen any definitive evidence. I understand the theoretical side of it (stress the yeast, therefore encouraging production of esters/desirable flavour compounds for those yeasts).
So why is it that we also read about a lot of the to European breweries not underpitching? Do they manipulate temp or pressure?