Queensland.....the dictator state..?

[philmud]

the gov. of the day have their citizens best interests in mind, believe they know something we do not....There must be a very good reason they are doing what they are doing...I am pretty sure if the voters think they are a bunch of fascists they are not going to get re-elected.

Ha hahahahaha. Oh my god! Yes, there must be a very good reason and you as a constituent don't have a right or a need to know about that. ****. Me. Dead.

 

[manticle]

see post 40 bloke, I, being a non paranoid person and believing that the gov. of the day have their citizens best interests in mind, believe they know something we do not. I don't believe politicians in modern day society have hidden agendas to subjugate society. There must be a very good reason they are doing what they are doing Manticle. There will be another election in 18 months or so and they want to win it. I am pretty sure if the voters think they are a bunch of fascists they are not going to get re-elected. I bet my swingers they are not doing this because they don't like tradies.

Regardless of conspiracy theories , in which I'm not a big believer (although I think govts have their own interests at heart rather than citizens' - conspiracy no, cynical yes), governments can still get stuff wrong.
I think they have got this wrong. They are not beyond criticism and they are not infallible.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

on that note, I'm done in this conversation too.

Browndog.

I sincerly hope you take the time to actually read and unferstand the new legislation, and not what is written in the media.

 

[peas_and_corn]

Here's my general thoughts: if bikie violence is a big problem, then take care of it directly- contribute a significant amount of resources to policing so that the assaults, shootings and so forth are more likely to find all those involved and prosecute. I have no objection to the sentiment that illegal activity should be tackled, and this applies to people who are not in bike gangs.

However, this legislation gives the government the power to arbitrarily prosecute people purely on the basis of who they spend time with, rather than whether they actually partake in illegal activities themselves. Here's a thought- if a community group wants to oppose a project the government is politically invested in, it would be incredibly tempting to find a way to arrest them under these laws, even if a prosecution attempt fails because it would have successfully broken up the opposition.

 

[brewtas]

It's lazy legislation designed to mitigate the need for a properly resourced police force by granting arbitrary powers to the judiciary. Maybe they won't be misused, but certainly they could be. If they are, then I bet it's not organised crime gangs that will be in the cross-hairs but activist/protest groups. Probably won't bother the apologists here, but it will be anti-democratic and it will be ******.

This is exactly it. A legal system protects the innocent by prosecuting criminals but it's also meant to protect the innocent by keeping them innocent and not violating their rights. Having ambiguous laws with sweeping powers is always a bad thing, no matter how valid the original target law may seem because it can be used to attack the innocent. This isn't about a hypothetical or conspiracy theory, this is a principle of how you approach making laws and if these kinds of laws keep getting passed, it won't be good for anyone.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

Here's the VLAD bill if anyone wants to have a laugh/cry. https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/bills/54pdf/2013/viclawassdisb13.pdf

 

[goomboogo]

There's been a lot said in this thread about drugs and Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs. They have a heavy influence but; approximately 85% of the manufacture and supply of illicit substances in Queensland is carried out by people with no association to the groups on the Queensland Government's list of proscribed entities.

 

[browndog]

Browndog.

I sincerly hope you take the time to actually read and unferstand the new legislation, and not what is written in the media.

"I find it interesting that those "for" the new laws have not actually taken the time to understand what and how these laws can actually affect them.G"

Stu, it's somewhat ignorant of you to assume because people do not agree with your line of thought, then they have no idea what they are talking about. I believe I have sufficient knowledge on this matter thanks to doing some reading and also at a recent club meeting having one of the members who's wife is a Lawyer, stand up and give up a 15 minute lecture on the implications of the new laws for Home Brew Clubs.

 

[manticle]

To be fair BD, suggesting it must all be OK because the government knows something we don't and they are only ever benevolent doesn't make you look amazingly informed.

Maybe you are but your initial statements suggest you are just happy to trust in the authorities because they'd never do anything stupid or bad.

 

[philmud]

I believe I have sufficient knowledge on this matter thanks to doing some reading and also at a recent club meeting having one of the members who's wife is a Lawyer, stand up and give up a 15 minute lecture on the implications of the new laws for Home Brew Clubs.

From what you appear to have taken away, I gather this would have been a fairly anti-climatic lecture.

"So in conclusion fellas, RDWHAHB"

 

[Liam_snorkel]

There are a few blokes who have been in solitary for over a month, just for having a beer at the pub. Completely insane. It's very simple - the government can't decided who it does and doesn't like and declare them criminals without actually having committed a crime. The govt knows this, and knows that it won't stack up in the high court, and is also why they didn't consult the bar association in drafting the legislation. The high court challenge will cost us a shitload and they will drag it out, basically as a PR exercise to say that they are 'tough on crime'.
The only other ulterior motive that I can think of is that the challenge won't be over before the G20 - and all they will need to do is add the list of G20 specific offences to the VLAD prescribed list, and you could see people being locked up for 10 years for staging a protest.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Quote

" The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way, the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed."

 

[Mattress]

Don't worry Queensland, Clive's coming to the rescue.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-12/palmer-vows-to-repeal-all-newman-legislation/5196196

I love how he states he will put forward one bill, to get rid of all legislation introduced by the Newman government.

Says a lot really, probably about both parties.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

Hahaha

 

[Black Devil Dog]

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

That will be interesting

 

[Liam_snorkel]

No, it's not, because the legislation will be overturned. It's just disappointing when politicians who aren't really that bright, pick unnecessary fights with the judiciary at our expense. The "ivory tower" rhetoric that Campbell was saying a month or two ago was just silly. If the actual goal was to increase sentences for gang related crimes then they would have done it properly in consultation with the judiciary, instead of drafting up something so ridiculous that it was destined to be overturned. They will appeal and drag it out and this **** is going to cost us hundreds of millions of dollars.

 

[Bribie G]

Not trying to do a "told you so you sonnafobitch" or anything, but I realised that things were going to go pear shaped in QLD, and that's one of the main reasons I fled south of the border in 2012.

I'm probably one of the few people on the forum who actually lived in QLD during the first dictatorship. I used to write letters to the local paper, the editor was a member in my branch of Lions club and he took me aside and said "Mike, you haven't been naturalised yet, I pulled a couple of your letters because, if you don't know, everyone who writes to the papers gets a file opened on them by the special branch. Because you aren't yet an Aussie citizen, that last letter could get you arrested and probably deported".

The letter in question was asking why Russ Hinze had problems with speaking recognisable English " you could of went there... "

Dead right, I'd have been up in court. I could see a return to those days, I expect the special branch are dusting off my file as we speak. :unsure:

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

How dare the government spy on its citizens. Thought that only happened with the NAZI party..oh ......wait.....hangon a minute

 

[Feldon]

This just came up on YouTube. "Queensland Police Harrassment" its called.

Bikie being pulled over when stopping for petrol.

What a waste of police resources.

Bloke's done nothing wrong either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TMOiMopMCU