Queensland.....the dictator state..?

[Ducatiboy stu]

And I will qualify my statements due to the fact that I have family in the police force, who have worked in the area of drug enforcement.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Brad...It is no longer the domain of bikies....

1996/7 is a long time ago.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Manticle,Q1. in QLD the drug trade is pretty much fed by the CBG's, yes you get your independent dealer that has grown his own or whatever but the majority can be traced back to them. The CBG's have fought for their business for a long time, without going into to much detail I remember a certain "roundhouse" in mackay having a shoot out around 1996/7 between the renegades, rebels and odens. They all wanted one thing, guess what that was. much the same as recent activity between 2 CBG's on the road to bribie island, another shootout.
Its all about stomping out the violence and the business associated with wholesale drug trafficing, drugs will always be around and people will always choose whether or not they will be a stoner or a junkie. The legislation has allowed the law the freedom to do what they can to stop a major player in this trade.
Yes, it could be seen that they are just sending the gangs underground, but that does slow them down. Have not heard of a bikie war or clubhouse bombing/burning since the new laws were introduced either.
Hopefully Q2 will be answered in due time.

 

[bradsbrew]

Brad...It is no longer the domain of bikies....

1996/7 is a long time ago.

Stu that was just a reference to an issue I was close to. And to confirm it was the Odins and Outlaws, renegades had been booted out of town by then. ( by other gangs) The bribie road one was a year or so ago and the club house fire bombings were very recent.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Manticle,Q1. in QLD the drug trade is pretty much fed by the CBG's, yes you get your independent dealer that has grown his own or whatever but the majority can be traced back to them. The CBG's have fought for their business for a long time, without going into to much detail I remember a certain "roundhouse" in mackay having a shoot out around 1996/7 between the renegades, rebels and odens. They all wanted one thing, guess what that was. much the same as recent activity between 2 CBG's on the road to bribie island, another shootout.
Its all about stomping out the violence and the business associated with wholesale drug trafficing, drugs will always be around and people will always choose whether or not they will be a stoner or a junkie. The legislation has allowed the law the freedom to do what they can to stop a major player in this trade.
Yes, it could be seen that they are just sending the gangs underground, but that does slow them down. Have not heard of a bikie war or clubhouse bombing/burning since the new laws were introduced either.
Hopefully Q2 will be answered in due time.

You know little ....

 

[bradsbrew]

You know little ....

OK.

I could "qualify" my statements but choose not to. I am out of this convo............

 

[manticle]

Sorry BD I think you're drawing a long bow. It's actually very difficult to comprehend how this law equates to making safer streets or will affect the drug trade one iota. Considering how long drugs have been around and how powerful those protecting the trade have traditionally been, how refusing renewal of licenses to electricians will make one iota of difference to drug manufacture, supply or use is completely beyond me.

The government obviously knows more than we do? Do you trust them on absolutely every level or are there occasions when you think someone in power has got something tits up?

Forget about bikies, drugs, libs vs labor or whatever for a second. Do you always trust in those in power or do you sometimes question an idea or decision by an authority?

I'm not suggesting for a moment that the drug trade as it stands (controlled by organised crime) should be allowed to run rampant but for christ's sake make laws that make sense (or enforce the existing ones properly) and actually combat it. This is like pissing in the wind and hoping the lemon tree somehow gets enough of a spray to last through the next hot summer.

@brad: Stomping out violence is a nice idea. Refusing someone a license to install wiring is going to achieve that how? I don't get the logical association.

 

[browndog]

Well, all I can say Manticle, Stu and some other bloke look in the mirror and say "thank god I don't live in Queensland" I'm pretty happy right where I am and I think Brad is too.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Manticle...bang on

There are multiple laws to deal with the problems that exist.

The government is taking the easy "win votes" political method.

Its the fact that these laws are now available for abuse by government that is the issue. They can be used for political advantage and that should be of concern.

I suggest reading the actuall legislation passed in full

 

[pk.sax]

It's fear. Fear of total dominance and taking a person's life out of their hands for the smallest offence if that is within the purview of this law. This law feeds on the fear amongst the public of bikie gangs and goes on to paint bikies as a diseased community that people should try to stay away from. Like they were lepers. Or had AIDS. If the law could make an electrician with a minor tie to a bikie club lose his ticket that is going to send home a message to everyone else that associates with a bikie club to stay away.

The government is targeting association instead of crimes committed by members of such association. It is like saying that a driver hired by a criminal to drive him from place to place is also guilty of a crime even though he never commits any crime on his own. The law is a clear assault on civil liberty. Maybe next they will tell everyone that people with mullets that belong to hunting clubs are criminals because some mullet wearing people were found dealing. Next thing the cops would be chasing anyone with a mullet that is meeting another couple of them.

Being punched in the face has nothing to do with bikies. If the law on drug dealers is soft then strengthen that. Make the penalties harsher. Stop letting 'first' time offenders get off so easily. People believe they can get away with crimes by playing victim, that process needs to be fixed, not additional obnoxious laws.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Well, all I can say Manticle, Stu and some other bloke look in the mirror and say "thank god I don't live in Queensland" I'm pretty happy right where I am and I think Brad is too.

Browndog....that is a shallow outlook. I have nothing against QLD as a whole, or anyone who lives there.

Dont worry, I have the same issues with laws in NSW,Vic,Tas,SA,Wa that place the government above law,and use "Law" to restrict the right of people in general to be able to associate and be free from percieved bias.

 

[Feldon]

The current anti-bikie laws are a proof of concept with wider ramifications. They are designed in part for governments to gauge how far they can go in removing human rights for the ‘greater good’ of society.

A hypothetical scenario that should strike a chord with readers of this forum is the following:

Scenario.
The resources boom goes into decline.
Government revenue falls and unemployment rises.
Beer sales, already in decline for years, fall to levels that threaten the ongoing viability of the major breweries.
Homebrewing increases as consequence of severe economic hardship in society.

Big Liquor (breweries, hotel/club owners etc.) lobbies government to ban homebrewing claiming that it:
- leads to domestic violence
- exposes children to easy access to alcohol
- preconditions children to emulate the excessive drinking habits of their elders,
- deprives the government of taxation.
Government commissions academic research to focus on the social and economic impact of unfettered homebrewing.
Government confidentially briefs mainstream media of its plans to outlaw homebrewing, and to launch an anti-homebrew advertising campaign(viz. Quit campaign, AIDS campaign), worth hundreds of millions to commercial media, to bring the perils of homebrewing to the attention of the population.
Commercial media run advance editorial in support of the government agenda; ABC/SBS do likewise as their government master’s command – all of which preconditions the public to accept the forthcoming ban.
Government, to much fanfare, announces a ban on homebrewing, and outlaws all forms of public association in the form of homebrew clubs, internet forums, LHBSs etc., using as its pretext the success of the anti-bikie laws.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Stop letting 'first' time offenders get off so easily. People believe they can get away with crimes by playing victim, that process needs to be fixed, not additional obnoxious laws.

I had to go to court as a witness for thr DPP against the **** that was part of a trio that walked into my house at 4am when I was asleep and assualted me.

I was told straight up that the judge would convict him, BUT...the Judge would give a minimal sentance because they didnt want to have any appeals against them for harsh sentencing....

Not the Judges fault, was explained as more political. The politicians like to use law & order for political gain.

The new laws have got **** all to do with actually stopping crime, more to do with a "we are getting toughter"

The laws are there, but politicians like to make new ones to show the "people" that they are "doing" someting.

 

[philmud]

I'm naive, that made me chuckle.

Seemed more polite than smug or glib

 

[manticle]

Well, all I can say Manticle, Stu and some other bloke look in the mirror and say "thank god I don't live in Queensland" I'm pretty happy right where I am and I think Brad is too.

Because organised crime including drugs and violence doesn't exist in Victoria? We have no issues with Bikie gangs here? A major hell's angels clubhouse is within walking distance of my place. Stopping an electrician from installing a circuit breaker won't do a lot to change that. I can buy drugs, take drugs and get punched in the head any Saturday night, should I choose to do so or be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Maybe I should confiscate all the carpenters' chisels as a safeguard?


You have managed to entirely skirt around what I was asking and ignore my points completely. I have asked what does this legislation do to prevent violent crime, organised crime, drug manufacture or make streets safer in any way whatsoever and you have not provided one specific answer. Brad at least tried to address some of the points I made.

I repeat - I am not supporting any organised crime organisation or their activities in any way, shape or form - merely questioning the efficacy of this set of legislative ideas in combatting what you think it is combatting.

 

[browndog]

Because organised crime including drugs and violence doesn't exist in Victoria? We have no issues with Bikie gangs here? A major hell's angels clubhouse is within walking distance of my place. Stopping an electrician from installing a circuit breaker won't do a lot to change that. I can buy drugs, take drugs and get punched in the head any Saturday night, should I choose to do so or be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Maybe I should confiscate all the carpenters' chisels as a safeguard?


You have managed to entirely skirt around what I was asking and ignore my points completely. I have asked what does this legislation do to prevent violent crime, organised crime, drug manufacture or make streets safer in any way whatsoever and you have not provided one specific answer. Brad at least tried to address some of the points I made.

I repeat - I am not supporting any organised crime organisation or their activities in any way, shape or form - merely questioning the efficacy of this set of legislative ideas in combatting what you think it is combatting.

see post 40 bloke, I, being a non paranoid person and believing that the gov. of the day have their citizens best interests in mind, believe they know something we do not. I don't believe politicians in modern day society have hidden agendas to subjugate society. There must be a very good reason they are doing what they are doing Manticle. There will be another election in 18 months or so and they want to win it. I am pretty sure if the voters think they are a bunch of fascists they are not going to get re-elected. I bet my swingers they are not doing this because they don't like tradies.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I find it interesting that those "for" the new laws have not actually taken the time to understand what and how these laws can actually affect them.

 

[philmud]

It's lazy legislation designed to mitigate the need for a properly resourced police force by granting arbitrary powers to the judiciary. Maybe they won't be misused, but certainly they could be. If they are, then I bet it's not organised crime gangs that will be in the cross-hairs but activist/protest groups. Probably won't bother the apologists here, but it will be anti-democratic and it will be ******.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

see post 40 bloke, I, being a non paranoid person and believing that the gov. of the day have their citizens best interests in mind, believe they know something we do not. I don't believe politicians in modern day society have hidden agendas to subjugate society. There must be a very good reason they are doing what they are doing Manticle. There will be another election in 18 months or so and they want to win it. I am pretty sure if the voters think they are a bunch of fascists they are not going to get re-elected.

Got nothing to do with the media....

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Heaven forbid

 

[browndog]

I find it interesting that those "for" the new laws have not actually taken the time to understand what and how these laws can actually affect them.G

on that note, I'm done in this conversation too.