Problem Before Fermentation

[daanmuller]

I have been having a problem with off beer. I can't pin point the smell other than its aweful.

I sterilized all my brewing utenstiles in the sink with sod met for 30 mins and did the same with my fermenters over night.

I have been trying to do a LCBA and this was my 3rd attempt. with a failure.


I do a standard mash with a temp of 65c for 1 hour. My wort is clear and tastes and smells normal sweet and malty. I drop this in to my boil kettle (50l keg shell) I sterilized this with boiling water and keg cleaner and gave it a good rinse.

I fill the boiler up and boil for 15 mins before my hop additions. 75 mins later my wort is ready for transfer to the no chill cube. Crystal clean wort. I let sit over night and kept it at 20c once cooled. about 3-4 days later it starts to ferment. (bretts?) I threw the batch out as it was really bad. Cleaned the nochill again and just put a standard kit in there 3.5% just to see if the cubes were being sterilized properly and been 6 days with out activity.

So I can rule out my fermenters and nochill cubes. But somehow the wort is picking up an infection, but I cant figure out where. Once the boil is done i cover the keg with cling wrap. I suspect my ball locks but I run boiling water through it, so I can't figure out the situtation.

Any suggestions on how to test equipment?

 

[Daniel.lear]

How do you get your hot wort from your kettle to your NCC? Ball valve and hose?

Inspect and clean all your taps. all sorts of nasties live in there

Leary

 

[3G]

Did i read you are using sodium met? That stuff doesnt sanatise, look throught AHB there are heaps of threads on sanitation. Or just buy some star san from craftbrewer.

 

[cliffo]

I've been getting a few off flavours in my beers of late - just made up a PBW solution in my kettle to clean it out then going to do my plate chiller.

Was amazed the amount of gunk that came out of the ball valve as soon as I ran a very small amount of PBW solution through it...disgusting but at least I think I've found my problem

Had previously used Napisan but this stuff looks the goods.

cliffo

 

[cliffo]

Sorry to hijack but you should see the crap just peeling off my kettle...PBW is freaking amazing!!!

 

[buttersd70]

How do you get your hot wort from your kettle to your NCC? Ball valve and hose?

Inspect and clean all your taps. all sorts of nasties live in there

Leary

Sometimes big chunky slimy nasties.....thread a couple of days ago about crap building up in ball locks.

 

[daanmuller]

Here is the wort in my no Chill Cube after 5.5 days

 

[muckanic]

Did i read you are using sodium met? That stuff doesnt sanatise, look throught AHB there are heaps of threads on sanitation. Or just buy some star san from craftbrewer.

More precisely, met doesn't clean, which is frequently what seems to be lacking in those hard-to-get-at spots.

 

[Bribie G]

Concentrated napisan solution eats slimy gooey stuff like yeast rings inside a jerrycan etc but nothing beats being able to pull the tap apart. Even though I use a hopsock the odd flower material usually manages to get out and always LOVES to lodge in the tap of my urn and can go totally feral in just a few days.

 

[pint of lager]

You have a problem with your no chill procedure. Stop looking at everything prior to the boil. You have to concentrate on everything that touches your brew post boil.

The transfer from the kettle to the no chill container has to be done as soon as possible after the boil is finsihed. The transfer tube has to be spotless. The tap from the kettle has to be spotless. The cube has to be spotless and rinsed with a decent no rinse sanitiser. The transfer has to be done as cleanly as possible. There has to be no air left in the cube. As the cube cools, it has to be turned a few times, so that the very hot wort comes into contact with the lid and handle.

Reda the no chill thread, or perhaps there is a wicki somewhere. Many people have no chilled successfully, but the risks of losing a brew are high if you are not scrupulous in your approach to sanitation and cleanliness. Other brewers have reported problems in the past too.

If you cannot change your no chill procedure, then consider only chilling till the wort is at pitching temp, transfer to your fermenter and pitch the yeast straight away.

Do look up the thread from the last week about ball valves harbouring grunge. There is a small recess in the valave that traps gunk, a great place for infections to build up. Even brewers who use a chiller have found the ball valve to be a harbour for infections.

Get rid of the sodium met, it is not very good for beer related brewing projects. PLenty of more appropriate sanitisers out there. Star san. iodophor, phosphoric acid, hydrogen peroxide are all easily obtained. Sodium met is cheap, but has no place in beer brewing, except for a pinch in the mash.

 

[Hutch]

pint of lager is spot-on.

Ditch the Sodium Met - Any HBS still selling this as a sanitiser doesn't deserve your business.
Be anal in sterilising the NC cube + lid, the transfer hose and the kettle tap, and make sure there's minimal air in it when you screw down the lid.

Use something like PBW, Nappysan or Sodium Percarbonate (Coopers Sanitiser) + boiling water to clean your cube.
Then on brew day, a brief rinse with no-rinse sanitiser (a few seconds work)a and then seal it up 'till you're ready to fill with boiled wort.

Hope you get it sorted Daan!

 

[muckanic]

A conundrum here is that a clean (and dry) fermenter probably doesn't need sanitising. Enquiring minds at this point would also like to know what the definition of a "no-rinse" sanitiser is. Iodophor, for instance, seems to foam up like no-one's business. Ever wondered why the head retention in pub beer is almost always so lousy? Same reason: detergent residue. I guess residue pre-fermentation may not be as bad as at bottling/kegging if the yeast activity takes it out, but the principle remains.

 

[pint of lager]

No conundrum muchanic, the OP has a no chill problem. This technique demands scrupulous sanitation, including using no rinse sanitisers.

If you are worried by the foam in iodophor, switch to phosphoric acid or hydrogen peroxide. I don't recall many brewers reporting problems with their craftbrewed beer having head retention problems. It is usually traced back to poor recipe formulation with kit brews, or dirty glasses. Pubs are a totally different kettle of fish.

As to a clean fermenter not needing sanitation, after spending hours making an ag, using a good no rinse sanitiser is a quick and easy step. Most brewers do not want to run the risk of some sort of infection riding on dust hiding in a clean fermenter.

 

[jonw]

You could try no-chilling in the cubes i.e. transfer from kettle to cube while still very hot, and let the hot wort pasteurise the cube.

 

[muckanic]

If you are worried by the foam in iodophor, switch to phosphoric acid or hydrogen peroxide. I don't recall many brewers reporting problems with their craftbrewed beer having head retention problems. It is usually traced back to poor recipe formulation with kit brews, or dirty glasses. Pubs are a totally different kettle of fish.

One thing I have been meaning to try just for the information is a no-rinse approach to glassware. I have my suspicions that yeast may be binding surfactants earlier in the brewing chain.

 

[rich_lamb]

+1 for what Pint'o has said. Get the transfer equipment clean and transfer SOON to take advantage of all that lovely heat to sanitise.

 

[daanmuller]

My No Chill is not the problem I have tried kits in there to eliminate fermenters, no chillers and the water source.

I have discovered the problem to be in the tap (ball valve) brewed again with a new 3 piece ball valve and no problems as of yet, been in the NC for 4 days with out problems.