Priming Using Grains

[dinosaw]

Brewmasters

I am looking at bulk priming using liquid form boiled up grain for my next brew.

That is when I am about to bottle I will boil up say 1kg of grain, strain/filter then add to brew and bottle.

To work out quantities required I am going to mix up what I usually do when I bulk prime and take its SG then try and get the liquor SG from my grain to equal this for the same volume of liquid.

Has anyone tried this and if so how does it effect the taste of the final product.

Deano

 

[peas_and_corn]

what you use as priming sugar doesn't have a huge amount of influence over flavour, so I'd say that it's not worth the bother

 

[KoNG]

i would just stick to sugar/dextrose, priming has very little (if any) effect on the final product IMHO.

Edit: beaten to the post

 

[user 384]

If you are talking about mashing a small amount of base malt to produce basically liquid malt, this would work and is similar in concept to krusening. The difference is that krusening involves adding already fermenting wort, and the unfermented portion providing the sugars for carbonation.

However if you are talking about using something like crystal malt, steeping this, then boiling, it is unlikley to give you your desired results. The sugars in crystal maly are mostly unfermentable and would not provide the yesat with food to produce CO2.

So you are going to have to do a mini mash to get the right kind of sugars and as others have alluded to it would be a lot of work for very little gain.

Sugar is cheap, accessible and gives predictable results. I wouldn't be looking at improving flavour through the bottling process othern than ensuring good sanitation practices and redcing the risk of oxidisation. Look for improvements in the quality of your beer at more critical stage.

Cheers
MAH

 

[Wortgames]

If you were really keen to do it, the best approach might be to simply bottle some of your AG wort before you ferment it.

When you are ready to bottle the fermented wort, you'll know how well it attenuated, and therefore you can calculate how much of the unfermented wort to add for priming.

The formulae are out there somewhere to figure out gravity points = co2 production = carbonation volumes.

 

[brendanos]

I would recommend sticking to dextrose for carbonation, as you know it's fermentability (hence can accurately predict/plan carbonation rates) and it makes light work for the yeast, which at bottling is not always in the best health/quantity (dextrose being a simple sugar is easy to ferment), and you will get more consistantly carbonated beer sooner. If you are really strictly anti adjunct, you could use DME (which again, you have a good idea of it's fermentability), but as already mentioned, it's that small a quantity that you'll not notice any effect on flavour... unless you use molasses. Mini mash if you want, but it's not really worth the effort.

 

[dinosaw]

Thanks for all the advice. Was thinking of using Rye - to add a bit of spice / pepper to the flavour.

 

[tangent]

I will boil up say 1kg of grain, strain/filter then add to brew and bottle.

do you have a firm grasp of mashing??

 

[dinosaw]

Yes have been doing all grains and using dex or malt extract to prime, found a difference in finished product between the dex and malt extract so thought using the liquor form a small grain mash would benefit the flavour and aroma.

 

[tangent]

check out "Speise" - a part of wort held back til the primary fermentation is done. Then, while racking/bottling, add about 8% Speise to the young beer to start a second fermentation in the keg/bottles to get the right amount of CO2 in the beer.

 

[KoNG]

Thanks for all the advice. Was thinking of using Rye - to add a bit of spice / pepper to the flavour.

Dsaw, if you are AG brewing, getting those flavours would be easier from the mash.

 

[brendanos]

John Palmer notes:

Be aware that malt extract will generate break material when boiled, and that the fermentation of malt extract for priming purposes will often generate a krausen/protein ring around the waterline in the bottle, just like it does in your fermenter. Simple sugars don't have this cosmetic problem and the small amount used for priming will not affect the flavor of the beer.

This would also hold true for Krausening/adding Speise.

 

[tangent]

that's a good point but i haven't noticed any line on coopers bottles, don't they speise?

dexy does work fast and clean tho.

 

[deebee]

John Palmer notes:

Be aware that malt extract will generate break material when boiled, and that the fermentation of malt extract for priming purposes will often generate a krausen/protein ring around the waterline in the bottle, just like it does in your fermenter. Simple sugars don't have this cosmetic problem and the small amount used for priming will not affect the flavor of the beer.

This would also hold true for Krausening/adding Speise.

I read this in Palmer too and kept an eye out for it when using DME for priming years ago. I never noticed it.

When I started brewing I primed with sugar. But I got fancy and moved to dextrose. Thought I was all whizzbang when I moved to DME. Then I got lazy and switched back to dextrose and these days I prime with sugar, whatever's in the pantry. Like everyone here says, there is little if any difference and so much easier.

DB

 

[brendanos]

I always strictly used DME in the past, but got tired of extended lag time for full carbonation. Using dextrose to me just seems like a much better idea, i like to bottle with as little yeast as possible, so I think those that were nice enough to stick around would be grateful if I didn't throw maltriose in their face.

 

[Trent]

I almost exclusively use spiese to prime my bottles, though I have to admit it probably isnt worth the effort as opposed to dex. I just do it that way, and it is kinda a cheaters way to get an extra bottle out of a batch without losing it through the airlock if you fill your fermenter up pretty high. I just use Steve Laceys excellent krausen/spiese calculator to determine how much to use. And the only time I get an ugly ring around the neck, its time to throw the batch out, cause it has a low leverl infection (usually).
I would suggest, if you are looking for some rye spiciness, just add a little rye into your mash. As someone mentioned earlier, if you know what it is going to ferment out to, you can prime alot more accurately.
All the best
Trent

 

[KoNG]

Hi Trent,
interesting...how does this give you the extra bottle..?

 

[Trent]

Gday Kong
Well, the average batch requires about 600-1000mL, depending on the gravity and carbonation, so instead of adding in just enough water to dissolve the sugar, I add about enough to fill a longneck!
It can be argued, though, that if you dont take it out in the first place, to save as spiese, you will still have that extra bottle in the fermenter, but I am happy telling myself it gives me more beer at the end (and if makes me feel alot better when I lose a bit through the airlock - woulda lost more if that extra 700mL was in there with it!).
All the best
Trent
EDIT - Forgot to say gday!

 

[KoNG]

Gday..!!! hahaha
but in reality if you added dex with 750ml of water it would be similar, yeh.? you need to add the same amount of sugars to get the right carb. I guess the only difference with the speise would be that you are adding a tiny amount of unfermentables as well.

Have you ever been able to detect any difference to using dex/sugar.? or is it just part of your routine now...?

Cheers
KoNG

 

[tangent]

speise also gives you a fresh burst of hop