Preserving hopiness.

[bum]

I was referring directly to the context of the thread (dumping all hot break into the fermenter). "Good practice" appears to be shifting ground.

I would have thought that brewing beer with beer yeast might have been generally considered good practice, however.

 

[Dave70]

Please note that I am not saying this is definitely the culprit here, but loss of the finer hop aromatics is typical of rapid oxidation reactions associated with high temps. I am just pointing out that attention to O2 reduction and minimising times at warm temperatures would be a good place to start.

Dave needs to report back on changes to his process to see if anything makes a perceivable difference.

I'm leaning towards this theory personally. At any rate, it's the one I can have the most control over.
If I have time to scratch my arse this weekend I'll be making the same beer, but plan on pre chilling a tub or two of water to about 1 deg in the keezer and plonking the cube straight in and seeing how quick I can get that sucker down. My all new fancy point and shoot thermometer comes in handy for monitoring that kind of thing.
Plus I've just started fermenting in the cube also I can limit the handling somewhat, not that it makes much of a difference.

Ferment it out with a 2000 or 2278 long and cold. Hell, I'll even chill the keg and purge with CO2 before transfer.

See how we go.

 

[Robbo2234]

My theory....
a theory none the less..

its the co2 that's scrubbing out the flavor.

or more the carbonic acid.
the reason for this theory is that after about 2 weeks in a keg (KnK Extract or AG) the hoppiness fades and leaves a hard flavor, at this stage most of the o2 has gone and only c02 is being introduced.

I am going to test this over the next few brews by testing the ph after fermentation and then 1, 2 and 3 weeks in.
and then try and add some calcium to correct.
any one know how much acid would end up in a keg?

so in short.. Introduction of carbonic acid = ph swing = lower flavor.

or after a typing like a drunk is some one going to tell me to pull my head in!

 

[Bizier]

Hell, I'll even chill the keg and purge with CO2 before transfer.

Umm, you don't currently purge? If that is the case, then I will point the finger at that alone, screw the temperature hypothesis.

Chilling the keg will not assist, if anything, you will get less O2 pickup if there is some warmth to the liquid.

I came up with a neat, low O2 racking process for myself. You clean and purge your keg, seal up (unfortunately this relies on the seal working well in reverse) and pour some boiling water on the outside of the keg and vent pressure build up with PRV. Then you take your racking tube (with beer ball lock) and just connect it when it is a bit cool and it should have sufficient vacuum to form a siphon, open PRV again to vent gas as it fills.