Preboil - Clean Or Sanitised?

[manticle]

I'm pulling apart my mash tun at the moment as I'm in the middle of a frenzied clean of everything.

However I've heard it suggested that pre-boil should be clean but sanitised is not necessary.

I have a basic esky with copper manifold, brass thread brass nuts and zinc plated brass t-piece inside and brass tap (no ball valve) with silicon hose oustide. Do I need to pull this apart every brew (and re-configure with fresh thread tape etc) and do I need to sanitise all this (leading to possible oxidation and corrosion in the metal pieces) before mashing?

Willing to do whatever it takes to keep sanitised but also happy to skip PIA steps where I can.

 

[altone]

I'm pulling apart my mash tun at the moment as I'm in the middle of a frenzied clean of everything.

However I've heard it suggested that pre-boil should be clean but sanitised is not necessary.

I have a basic esky with copper manifold, brass thread brass nuts and zinc plated brass t-piece inside and brass tap (no ball valve) with silicon hose oustide. Do I need to pull this apart every brew (and re-configure with fresh thread tape etc) and do I need to sanitise all this (leading to possible oxidation and corrosion in the metal pieces) before mashing?

Willing to do whatever it takes to keep sanitised but also happy to skip PIA steps where I can.

Clean, not sanitised sounds right to me - but how do you make sure your manifold is clean without pulling it apart?
I wouldn't bother pulling apart anything else so long as you're sure it's nice and clean.

Having said that, I do push Starsan through my mash tun before using - just to be safe.

My 2c - no responsibility taken for adverse results :icon_cheers:

 

[manticle]

When I get some starsan, I'll likely use it regardless because it seems so damn easy. At the moment I use bleach/vinegar and I think that can oxidise copper (and therefore presumably brass). Copper is also supposed to be antimicrobial. By pulling apart the manifold, I assume you just mean separating from the all thread/t-piece and cleaning rather than actually separating every bit of copper pipe, elbows and t-s?

 

[Jye]

Clean is fine.

 

[3G]

Clean for the entire brewery setup. Make sure from the kettle ball valve onwards is clean AND sanitised.

 

[altone]

When I get some starsan, I'll likely use it regardless because it seems so damn easy. At the moment I use bleach/vinegar and I think that can oxidise copper (and therefore presumably brass). Copper is also supposed to be antimicrobial. By pulling apart the manifold, I assume you just mean separating from the all thread/t-piece and cleaning rather than actually separating every bit of copper pipe, elbows and t-s?

Well, so long as you washed it out immediately after last use, I'm sure it'll be fine.
But if you left it dirty overnight (like I have before) I'd pull it all apart and give it a scrub.

In fact, if it's difficult to pull apart, just run a bit of detergent and boiling water through it to dislodge any nasties then rinse
and I'm sure you'll be fine.

 

[manticle]

Clean for the entire brewery setup. Make sure from the kettle ball valve onwards is clean AND sanitised.

I don't have any ball valves but you mean anything post-boil (kettle to fermenter, fermenter, fermenter to secondary, secondary, secondary to bottles, bottles??)

That's how I would do it.

Cheers for clarification - I know it's basic stuff but I'm a basic kind of guy.

@boddingtons - if I empty grain immediately following mash, rinse then run hot hot sodium percarbonate solution through then let dry thoroughly I should be good then?

 

[altone]

I don't have any ball valves but you mean anything post-boil (kettle to fermenter, fermenter, fermenter to secondary, secondary, secondary to bottles, bottles??)

That's how I would do it.

Cheers for clarification - I know it's basic stuff but I'm a basic kind of guy.

@boddingtons - if I empty grain immediately following mash, rinse then run hot hot sodium percarbonate solution through then let dry thoroughly I should be good then?

For sure, so long as you get rid of any leftovers straight away you'll go great guns.
email me a glass of it and I'll test it for ya :lol:

 

[TidalPete]

Clean is fine.

+1
Never worried about sanitising my mash tun when I did gravity & everything always turned out ok.
Now I have a HERMES everything is sanitised by recirculating phos after two good recircs of 100 deg c water which includes the mash tun.

I have a basic esky with copper manifold, brass thread brass nuts and zinc plated brass t-piece inside and brass tap (no ball valve) with silicon hose oustide. Do I need to pull this apart every brew (and re-configure with fresh thread tape etc) and do I need to sanitise all this (leading to possible oxidation and corrosion in the metal pieces) before mashing?

All included in the +1 & agree with BB that you must clean up straight away. Anything post-boil needs to be sanitised.
Just curious but are you sure your tee piece is zinc plated brass? Chrome plated perhaps? If zinc perhaps just a plain copper tee would be better?

TP

 

[buttersd70]

@boddingtons - if I empty grain immediately following mash, rinse then run hot hot sodium percarbonate solution through then let dry thoroughly I should be good then?

My tun only ever gets the hose....don't even bother with any chemicals in it. (apart from that time I accidently left grain in it for a whole week. Then it got some serious attention. :lol: ).

Just hose it down, make sure theres no grain residue left in it. As long as it's pre-boil....or more correctly, pre 'boiling vessel'.

 

[Count Vorlauf]

Adding my vote to the Clean, but not sanitised bloc.

That said, you'll need some sort of acid detergent to break down any beer stone that might have developed - vinegar does the job if you don't have any phosphoric acid in the cupboard . Bleach should be kept well away from your precious stainless as a cleaning agen. Bleach + vinegar is a recipe for corrosion. From Lewis and Young's "Brewing":
The active agent [in bleach] is hypochlorous acid... which is a powerful oxidizing agent. It is somewhat unstable at high temperature and in the presence of organic soils (which is the reason for cleaning before sanitizing). Hypochlorite chould be used at neutral or slightly alkaline pH because, in acid conditions, it can rapidly corrode even stainless steel and release noxious chlorine gass. [As a sanitser] It is commonly used at up to 200 ppm for 10 seconds exposure at room temperature. A much lower concentration is seffective with longer exposure times."

Palmer also recommends against using bleach with copper. Stick to vinegar.

 

[manticle]

All included in the +1 & agree with BB that you must clean up straight away. Anything post-boil needs to be sanitised.
Just curious but are you sure your tee piece is zinc plated brass? Chrome plated perhaps? If zinc perhaps just a plain copper tee would be better?

TP

Chromed brass is correct. I would have gone with a copper- t but from all my pissfarting around, the only t I could make fit the pipe and the thread was this one.

Long story, forget it happened. She works good now but yes - chrome.

All these answers confirm my original thinking but in light of what may have been a recent infection, I've been cleaning like crazy today and thought I should check.