Pot Prices

[T.D.]

I have had similar experience with Fallsdell. You think "oohh there's a second hand s/s vessel, no lid but that's ok, might make it cheaper", get the price for it and almost fall off your chair! Its probably really top quality stuff, but nobody can argue the Robinox stock pots (ali or s/s) are not high enough quality!

I agree with the above, if I bought any more pots for my brewery I would almost definitely go ali. That is, unless I stumbled across a s/s at the right price.

By the way, and sorry for the OT, but does anybody know if there are any legitimate reasons why you shouldn't use an ali pot as a mash tun?

 

[HoppingMad]

I checked out Fallsdell. Made a price enquiry on an 80L SS pot. It seemed to be the closest thing they have to a stock pot.
$1115! I think I will keep looking.

Yeah Greg, the prices were up there. But varied a bit depending on the item when I enquired. Depended on whether you were selecting drums, s/s pails, pots or tanks.

Here's some of the prices I got back -

Stainless Steel Vat 80L $ 175.00 + GST
Stainless Steel Vat 80L $350.00 + GST
Stainless Steel Vat , 150L PRICE: $275.00 + GST
Stainless Steel Vat 200L $450.00 + GST

Was tempted by the first one but the shipping cost to Melbourne was a bit prohibitive though.

Hopper.

 

[Fents]

yea old mate enquired at falsdell about a secondhand 200L SS Drum - they wanted $950 for one. Theyre reasoning was they cost >$2K new and they were the thick 316 grade stainless.

went to a scrap yard in abbotsford and ended up getting one for about $50, not quite as thick but still good enuff to brew in.

 

[HoppingMad]

By the way, and sorry for the OT, but does anybody know if there are any legitimate reasons why you shouldn't use an ali pot as a mash tun?

Info here. Essentially an argument that aluminium = altzheimers
Brewpot discussion

 

[T.D.]

Info here. Essentially an argument that aluminium = altzheimers
Brewpot discussion

I've seen all that stuff before (and frankly I am not concerned). I was more talking about any specific reasons why ali would not be suitable for mashing (relative to boiling for instance). My worry is that because its a good conductor of heat it will lose temp quicker. But this should be accounted for with good insulation. But the stuff I don't know as much about is whether the pH etc of mashes will cause any issues. I don't imagine it would, but I am just curious as you don't see many ali mash tuns around and wondered if there was a reason for this!

 

[DJR]

I've seen all that stuff before (and frankly I am not concerned). I was more talking about any specific reasons why ali would not be suitable for mashing (relative to boiling for instance). My worry is that because its a good conductor of heat it will lose temp quicker. But this should be accounted for with good insulation. But the stuff I don't know as much about is whether the pH etc of mashes will cause any issues. I don't imagine it would, but I am just curious as you don't see many ali mash tuns around and wondered if there was a reason for this!

I think i've heard it is pH 3 or below that it starts to be a problem. Boiling wort is lower pH than the mash and we all do that, so i'd say it's fine, as long as you're not fermenting in it.

A good amount of airfoil around the sides would probably see it hold heat quite well, your strike temps would have to be a few deg higher than say an esky but once you know the water equivalance just plug it into your brewing software and away you go

 

[Spartan 117]

A good thing to watch out for are liquidations of restraunts or catering companies, garage sales, op shops and local garage sales if you hold out for a while you could pick up a nice bargain, Got my 15L pot from Savers for $6, mind you it now only gets used for big batches of curry :beerbang: .

Good Luck

Aaron

 

[T.D.]

I think i've heard it is pH 3 or below that it starts to be a problem. Boiling wort is lower pH than the mash and we all do that, so i'd say it's fine, as long as you're not fermenting in it.

A good amount of airfoil around the sides would probably see it hold heat quite well, your strike temps would have to be a few deg higher than say an esky but once you know the water equivalance just plug it into your brewing software and away you go

Cheers mate, makes sense. A 30L ali pot could be just the ticket I reckon.

 

[pdilley]

Disclaimer: Not a direct attack against you personally.

Alzheimers from Aluminimum is a Crock of Shit. Sorry, someone needs to back it up with direct evidence.

You consume more Aluminium eating one single Antacid Tablet from the chemist than you do from a lifetime of brewing wort in an Aluminium stockpot. I guess anyone who ate a tablet for getting rid of an upset stomach is getting Alzheimers 100% guaranteed.



Cheers,
Brewer Pete


EDIT: You also slather more Aluminium under your armpits every day in your Anti Persperant than you would get from brewing wort in an Aluminium stockot

 

[pdilley]

I've seen all that stuff before (and frankly I am not concerned). I was more talking about any specific reasons why ali would not be suitable for mashing (relative to boiling for instance). My worry is that because its a good conductor of heat it will lose temp quicker. But this should be accounted for with good insulation. But the stuff I don't know as much about is whether the pH etc of mashes will cause any issues. I don't imagine it would, but I am just curious as you don't see many ali mash tuns around and wondered if there was a reason for this!

Your volume of wort is a huge energy battery. Heat escapes from the top more than any difference in the walls of the stockpot.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[DJR]

Cheers mate, makes sense. A 30L ali pot could be just the ticket I reckon.

Going step mash are we? Seems like an easy way to do it if you aren't mashing in plastic - just stick the mash tun on the burner and stir it while the heat is on. Let me know how it goes I might even do it myself up here

 

[T.D.]

I do plan to step mash, but I was just going to do it with boiling water infusions, rather than direct heat. I was just going to insulate it. Sounds crazy in some respects but as much as direct heat would be great for stepping the temp up, I am not sure about the temp stability between steps. Any thoughts? I would imagine being ali it would lose a lot of heat if not insulated.

Cheers.

 

[pdilley]

I step mash via direct heat. Lowest flame maintains temp even with lid off for me. With flame off heat losses are only a degree or so every 10 minutes.

Plenty fine enough for me. Put down wheat beer multi-step mash only 3 days ago.



Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[DJR]

I would have thought you could just insulate the sides and lid and then put a bit of thin allu or even some alfoil over the very bottom of the insulation to stop it burning anyway. That should stop it losing too much heat and avoid the need to constantly heat it.

Water would work but some of the amounts you'd have to add would be massive and would thin out the mash too much i reckon... if you were going to do a simple say 60-70 step mash it'd be OK but for a full wheat beer mash with ferulic, protein, maltose and amylase rest you'd end up with enough water that you wouldn't have to sparge at all

 

[T.D.]

I step mash via direct heat. Lowest flame maintains temp even with lid off for me. With flame off heat losses are only a degree or so every 10 minutes.

Plenty fine enough for me. Put down wheat beer multi-step mash only 3 days ago.



Cheers,
Brewer Pete

Thanks Pete, it is tempting to go the direct heat option, especially since ali is such a good conductor, and is less susceptible to scorching.

I would have thought you could just insulate the sides and lid and then put a bit of thin allu or even some alfoil over the very bottom of the insulation to stop it burning anyway. That should stop it losing too much heat and avoid the need to constantly heat it.

Water would work but some of the amounts you'd have to add would be massive and would thin out the mash too much i reckon... if you were going to do a simple say 60-70 step mash it'd be OK but for a full wheat beer mash with ferulic, protein, maltose and amylase rest you'd end up with enough water that you wouldn't have to sparge at all

Yep, the step mash I have in mind is a simple two-step jobbie - protein rest then up to 66-67 for a sacc rest. I agree if it was a 3 or 4 step mash it would be a bit tough - would either have to start super thick or end up super thin (or both).

 

[Spartan 117]

Disclaimer: Not a direct attack against you personally.

Alzheimers from Aluminimum is a Crock of Shit. Sorry, someone needs to back it up with direct evidence.

You consume more Aluminium eating one single Antacid Tablet from the chemist than you do from a lifetime of brewing wort in an Aluminium stockpot. I guess anyone who ate a tablet for getting rid of an upset stomach is getting Alzheimers 100% guaranteed.



Cheers,
Brewer Pete


EDIT: You also slather more Aluminium under your armpits every day in your Anti Persperant than you would get from brewing wort in an Aluminium stockot

Most antacids these days are aluminium free, even the stronger ones you need a script for only contain magnesium tryhydrate.

As for dosing wort with aliminuim by boiling it in an aluminium pot, I'm not to sure. Alumina is insoluble in water (at pH 7 25C 100kpa) but given the large volume of water used and the mild acidity it is posible.

Aaron


edit: spelling

 

[pdilley]

:icon_offtopic: Antacids have always been made from mixtures of bicarb soda, and magnesium, and aluminium salts. Each brand uses one or more of them. I use Mylanta which is still Aluminium and Magnesium based. But to digress, because you find antacids without aluminium is does not specify if it is because consumers are flocking to non aluminium brands due to alzheimer scare or there is a scientific reason. Have to ask the question a bit deeper to why things happen. The most eye opening thing to do is to pay particular attention to which company(s) are funding a particular research as well. Especially when there is flip-flop over time between something being bad but then not bad for you.

Aluminum is basically harmless and it doesn't cause Alzheimer's disease. The same is true of stainless steel. The amount of leeching, if any, is infinitesimal, the amount absorbed by the body is a fraction of a percent of that, and the body has no trouble eliminating these compounds in healthy individuals.

There is no need to use a manufactured product for 6 mos and then discard it because of normal wear and tear.

More on Aluminum and Alzheimer's disease can be found below but I will quote the relevant summary for you.

http://alzheimers.org.uk/factsheet/406

The hypothesis that there is a link between aluminium and Alzheimer's disease was first put forward in the 1960s (Terry and Pena 1965, Klatzo et al 1965).

* Aluminium has been shown to be associated both with plaques and with tangles in the brains of people with Alzheimer's disease (Crapper et al 1976). However, the presence of aluminium does not mean that the aluminium was the causal factor − it is more likely to be a harmless secondary association.
* Some have claimed that people with Alzheimer's disease have a higher than average level of aluminium in their brains. However, other studies find no difference between the overall amount of aluminium in the brains of people with Alzheimer's and the amount in normal brains (Trapp et al 1978).
* Studies of other sources of aluminium, such as tea, antacid medications and antiperspirants have also failed to show a positive association with Alzheimer's disease (Flaten and Odegrd 1988).
* People with kidney failure are unable to excrete aluminium, and yet they frequently have to be treated with compounds that contain aluminium. Aluminium accumulates in nerve cells that are particularly vulnerable in Alzheimer's disease. However, even after years of high exposure to aluminium, patients with kidney failure are no more likely to develop dementia or the hallmark pathological changes of Alzheimer's disease (Netter et al 1990).

Ask lots of questions and learn lots of things!

Cheers,
Brewer Pete