Poor Effifiency For A Wit

[3G]

I did 4 back to back brews and got 75 to 77 % for each brew yesterday. Today it was wit beer time and i only got around 65%.

Recipe was 4kg weyermenn pils, 4kg raw wheat and 750 gram oats which i pre boiled in water.

Mash was 90 mins at 65 degrees and mash pH was 5.1

I am assuming there arent enought enzymes in the wey. pils to convert the others.
Would a step mash help or do i need a case malt with more enzymes?

 

[jimmy01]

I did 4 back to back brews and got 75 to 77 % for each brew yesterday. Today it was wit beer time and i only got around 65%.

Recipe was 4kg weyermenn pils, 4kg raw wheat and 750 gram oats which i pre boiled in water.

Mash was 90 mins at 65 degrees and mash pH was 5.1

I am assuming there arent enought enzymes in the wey. pils to convert the others.
Would a step mash help or do i need a case malt with more enzymes?

Hi 3G

i've noticed the same thing. i reckon you are right - not enough enzymes in the malt to convert the wheat. I just live with the lower efficiency - a good wit is worth it.


Cheers
Jimmy

 

[3G]

Hi 3G

i've noticed the same thing. i reckon you are right - not enough enzymes in the non-wheat malts. I just live with the lower efficiency - a good wit is worth it.


Cheers
Jimmy

Yeah, a wit is one of my faves. Would be good to nail it perfectly.

 

[jimmy01]

Yeah, a wit is one of my faves. Would be good to nail it perfectly.

Good yeast is the secret. Cant go past the Wyeast 3944.

 

[3G]

Good yeast is the secret. Cant go past the Wyeast 3944.

Cheers
3944, raw wheat, oats, coriander seeds freshly crushed, very fine fresh orange and lime zest all in this batch.

 

[raven19]

I think efficiency increases when I am there helping drain your kegs! :lol:

Longer mash time maybe?

 

[Frank]

I did 4 back to back brews and got 75 to 77 % for each brew yesterday. Today it was wit beer time and i only got around 65%.
Recipe was 4kg weyermenn pils, 4kg raw wheat and 750 gram oats which i pre boiled in water.
Mash was 90 mins at 65 degrees and mash pH was 5.1
I am assuming there arent enought enzymes in the wey. pils to convert the others.
Would a step mash help or do i need a case malt with more enzymes?

I used 100% Wey Pils in a Czech Pilsner and got 75% efficiency, recipe in the DB. So I don't think enzymes should be the problem.
I think raw wheat should have a protein rest at 50C before raising to your 65C. Do a bit of research on Protein Rests and see what you can find.

 

[3G]

I too have used 100% wey. pils without a problem.

I assume more enzymes are needed when the base malt is 40% of the grist.
I think galaxy malt is higher in enzymes to convert rice. Maybe i need to give this a go along with a step mash.

 

[Sammus]

Weyermann are some of the most highly modified malts you can get, no conversion difficulties due to them. Did you crack your wheat seperately? wheat is a much smaller kernal and won't crack as well as the other grains if you just chuck em all through the mill together.

 

[3G]

I passed the wheat thru the mill 3 times to form a very fine crush.

 

[Darren]

I suspect the wheat formed a glutinous mass that was reluctant to be converted and relenquish its sugars. A thinner mash and plenty of stirring throughout will help.

cheers

Darren

 

[3G]

I suspect the wheat formed a glutinous mass that was reluctant to be converted and relenquish its sugars. A thinner mash and plenty of stirring throughout will help.

cheers

Darren

I mashed at 3lt per kilo and had the herms running the whole time. Ill try protein rest, galaxy malt and a good stir every 10 mins next time.

 

[katzke]

I mashed at 3lt per kilo and had the herms running the whole time. Ill try protein rest, galaxy malt and a good stir every 10 mins next time.

Well I have been doing some research because I am planning on brewing one this week. From what I have read a rest can not hurt. Also the enzyme question seems valid. Being in the USA it was suggested to add some 6 row for more enzyme activity and I seem to recall that Pilsner malt was not recommended but may be wrong on that. I do remember that a malt with as much diastatic power as possible is recommended.

I am planning on a BIAB brew. Need to find a way to crush the grain as I do not have a mill.

 

[Sammus]

AFAIK there is no base malts available with more diastatic power than weyermann, I don't know why everyone keeps assuming theyre the reason for poor efficiency <_<

 

[3G]

AFAIK there is no base malts available with more diastatic power than weyermann, I don't know why everyone keeps assuming theyre the reason for poor efficiency <_<

I have emailed weyermann for the specs on their various malts, i couldnt find the info i was after online.
I have the details for galaxy malt and will post a comparison when i get the details. I notice weyermann do a diastatic malt as well.

 

[mje1980]

I did 4 back to back brews and got 75 to 77 % for each brew yesterday. Today it was wit beer time and i only got around 65%.

Recipe was 4kg weyermenn pils, 4kg raw wheat and 750 gram oats which i pre boiled in water.

Mash was 90 mins at 65 degrees and mash pH was 5.1

I am assuming there arent enought enzymes in the wey. pils to convert the others.
Would a step mash help or do i need a case malt with more enzymes?

I did one not long ago with IMC pils. Had an efficiency drop. Nothing major and was a great beer. I really don't think it was the weyermann malt IMHO. I can't tell you what caused the drop, but i'd be very surprised if it was the wey pils.

 

[katzke]

I did one not long ago with IMC pils. Had an efficiency drop. Nothing major and was a great beer. I really don't think it was the weyermann malt IMHO. I can't tell you what caused the drop, but i'd be very surprised if it was the wey pils.

Well I reread the pages I saved on brewing this style. I was wrong on the Pilsner Malt and it is the preferred malt. Diastatic power is an issue and one easy way to compensate is add a bit more malt. A rest seems to be the best fix to all this. You need to find a balance between conversion, sparge ability, and staying true to style with color. As with any brewing it seems a bit of experimenting is in order. The rest time of 45 minutes was recommended as an hour can result in too clear of a brew. Forgot the temp and would have to convert anyway. You can find info by googling brewing white beer.

Once I find a way to crush my wheat I think I will do the rest and adjust the recipe to the high end of the style gravity so if my efficiency is low I should still be ok.

 

[wessmith]

Replace half of the raw wheat with wheat malt. The available diastase in wheat malt is much higher than barley malt. My standard Wit recipe has always been equal thirds of a good Pils malt, wheat malt and raw wheat.

I see the momily about Galaxy malt being "higher" in enzymes is still about. Its not. It has "higher" levels of beta glucanase which will only work for you in a beta glucanase rest.

This is not needed nor desirable in a wit.

Wes

 

[wessmith]

I have emailed weyermann for the specs on their various malts, i couldnt find the info i was after online.
I have the details for galaxy malt and will post a comparison when i get the details. I notice weyermann do a diastatic malt as well.

The info you are after is on the Weyermann website:
http://www.weyermann.de/eng/produkte.asp?i...7&sprache=2

Note these are specs - not Certificates of Analysis, but experience has shown that the two vary very little within a malt season.

Wes

 

[muckanic]

You can test whether the culprit is insufficient starch conversion enzymes or lack of a protein rest. With the latter, what tends to happen is that sugar stays locked up in the grain during the sparge. A stir and a gravity reading near the end of the sparge can establish that. Whether such sparge problems are more or less common with a HERMS, I don't know. My method for wits/weizens/roggens is to perform a ferulic acid rest at 40C, then get to conversion as quickly as possible. With my system, that still means half an hour or so in the protein digestion zone, which is about as much as I want to give it (otherwise the brew gets too clear and loses head, assuming well-modified pils malt). The trade-off is that some sparge efficiency is sacrificed, especially if oats are involved.

Most pils malt ought to be able to convert 50% adjunct, provided the wheat is ground properly, the mash is long enough, and the pH is right. The hydration step at 40C also helps. With wits, you kind of have to get back to basics and do things like starch tests, although I can usually tell just from looking at the supernatant liquid. BTW, I have established that malted wheat (at least JWM's) does not possess significant protease, as it won't clear completely without assistance from some pils malt.