Polyclar "dust" In Bright Beer

[Thirsty Boy]

Right. Too much misinformation.

Lets clear this up (hahahaha...)

Well, actually isinglass does act in a subsidiary way to clear chill haze - the chains are long enough so that they have some areas of negative charge which can act to bind the polyphenol/protein complex and drag it out with the rest.

Primarily for yeast - but it will help with chill haze in a minor way.

But - that's niggling. Your summary is correct. Carageenan for break material, Isinglass/gelatin/agar for yeast, PVPP for chill haze. Three different things for three different purposes.

TB

 

[manticle]

Add lead to the list, poisoned lots of kids through their pencils as well.

Batz

When was that?

 

[Aus_Rider_22]

Lead has never been used in pencils. Maybe for Egyptians but not for us.

I don't know whether I have missed the sarcasm but some arguments that are off-topic are misleading.

I use polyclar and has served me well. Finings + Polyclar makes for pretty bright and clear beer for fermenter, CC to keg.

 

[bum]

I think Batz may have been speaking euphemistically in regard to birth defects?

Dunno if this was his intention (or true) but that is how I read it.

 

[Aus_Rider_22]

I think Batz may have been speaking euphemistically in regard to birth defects?

Dunno if this was his intention (or true) but that is how I read it.

My bad I missed the joke.

It's pretty funny reading it again.

 

[bcp]

(Ok, i'm no industrial chemist, so this is a conversation that is open to corrections... )

But it's not correct to say that polyclar is completely harmless. It's more correct to say that, if the manufacturer of your polyclar meets the standards (as per, EU health commission recommendations) of quantities of NVP, then in normal usage it should be quite safe.


PVPP NOT THE RISK - NVP IS
Polyclar (PVPP) contains residues of N-vinyl-2-pyrrolidone (NVP) monomer. How much is the critical question.
Toxicological data on NVP shows this substance to be "a non-genotoxic carcinogen by inhalation in rats and to have other toxic effects in other laboratory animal species by various exposure routes." [EHC European Health Commission - see below].
In other words, NVP is a carcinogen - and the report goes on to discuss that taken orally it also has a risk when the dose is sufficient.

ABSORBED INTO THE BODY
"Oral toxicokinetic studies with 14C labelled NVP in rats showed rapid absorption of the radiolabel and wide distribution throughout the body tissues, the highest tissue levels appearing in the liver (10% as against <1% in most other tissues). Most of the radioactivity (about 75%) was excreted in the urine, about 0.4% appearing in the faeces, and about 1% being found as 14CO2 (Digenis, 1990). There was considerable enterohepatic circulation (McClanahan et al., 1984)." [EHC]
Ok, this is in quite high doses, and NVP in beer will be really really low, but it demonstrates that NVP is absorbed by the body.

DOSES OF NVP IN BEER & WINE
"The maximum residue of NVP from the use of PVPP in the clarification of beer and wine is estimated at 5 g/l of beverage, based on experimental technological data. Thus consumption of 2L of beer and wine/day may contribute an intake of up to 0.17 g/kg b.w/day of NVP for a 60 kg person. The Committee understands, however, that the Community Code of Oenological Practice and Processes limits the maximum content of free NVP in PVPP to 0.1%, which exceeds the proposed specification limit for NVP in PVPP by about 100-fold and wishes to draw the attention of the Commission to this discrepancy (European Commission, 2000)." [EHP - emphasis mine] Point being, the standards of various bodies globally cannot all be trusted!

CONCLUSION OF THE REPORT
"The use ...of PVPP as a processing aid for beer and wine remain acceptable, provided the existing specifications for ...PVPP are amended to the currently proposed limit for NVP residues of 10 mg/kg PVP or PVPP. ...The Committee notes that the manufacturer supplying the European Union market currently meets such a specification." [EHC - emphasis mine]

It's more correct to say that, given current data, the levels of consumption from beer & wine clarification purposes put it within safe limits - provided your manufacturer is following the guidelines for filtering out NVP.

And of course they are!

Reference (a little different to some studies i saw commissioned by the manufacturers):
http://ec.europa.eu/food/fs/sc/scf/out87_en.pdf

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Well, actually isinglass does act in a subsidiary way to clear chill haze - the chains are long enough so that they have some areas of negative charge which can act to bind the polyphenol/protein complex and drag it out with the rest.

Primarily for yeast - but it will help with chill haze in a minor way.

But - that's niggling. Your summary is correct. Carageenan for break material, Isinglass/gelatin/agar for yeast, PVPP for chill haze. Three different things for three different purposes.

TB

TB is right,but IMHO isinglass is "very" effective at removing haze but you have to chill the beer for the haze to form first then I binds all these haze's up and drops therm out.Try it and see, proof is in the eating.
GB

 

[Kai]

Personally my guess is that if you have a polyclar suspension in your beer then at most you are going to become fractionally more regular.