Phenolic Wheat

[Hophead]

It seems that whenever I brew an AG wheat I end up with a strong phenolic taste that I do not get when I use the same yeast in an extract brew.


I have tried:

WLP 300 (19C)
WLP 380 (18 & 22 C)
WLP 400 (19-20 C)
Wyeast 3522 (18 & 24C)

Pitching temp always less than 18C

I thought it might be a chloroamine problem so used 1/8 tsp (in addition to the 5.2 buffer I use). But the phenolic taste is still there!

(BTW I use JW wheat, not much left of the bag though)

Not sure what I might be doing wrong, so not sure what details to add.

Thanks

 

[Trent]

HopHead
I think that ya may have just answered yer own question, pitching below 18C is a sure fire way to bring out the phenolics in this beer IIRC. I would probably aim at pitching around 20-22C, pitch low and aerate well. I believe that yeast growth help with esters (the banana I assume you are looking for), so pitching a small amount of yeast, with a fair bit of aeration, fermented warmer. Actually, just re-reading what you have tried, I am assuming that you are pitching plenty of yeast. Les the Weizguy did his own little experiment on pitching rates in wheats, and I think the one that gave the most banana was low yeast cell count, and more aeration. More stress on wheat yeast tends to give you a better beer IMO.
He will probably pipe up if I am wrong, though.
All the best
Trent

 

[Screwtop]

HopHead
I think that ya may have just answered yer own question, pitching below 18C is a sure fire way to bring out the phenolics in this beer IIRC. I would probably aim at pitching around 20-22C, pitch low and aerate well. I believe that yeast growth help with esters (the banana I assume you are looking for), so pitching a small amount of yeast, with a fair bit of aeration, fermented warmer. Actually, just re-reading what you have tried, I am assuming that you are pitching plenty of yeast. Les the Weizguy did his own little experiment on pitching rates in wheats, and I think the one that gave the most banana was low yeast cell count, and more aeration. More stress on wheat yeast tends to give you a better beer IMO.
He will probably pipe up if I am wrong, though.
All the best
Trent

From discussions with Dave Logsdon of Wyeast last year re this subject, I'm with Trent above. Dave suggested low pitching rates 1:200 (half the normal pitching rate) and temp of 22C for isoamyl acetate (banana) production. Typically wheats are low in malt and hop profiles and so exhibit these characteristics readily due to yeast stress.

 

[Mr Bond]

Step,decoction, or single infusion mash?

 

[Hophead]

Thanks for the responses.

Single infusion (a ferulic rest being a bit beyond me).

Generally I pitch a large volume of yeast, I did try stressing the yeast with a smaller starter but the lower pitching temperature and lower cell count gave a start that was just too sloowww.

I have been pitching at lower temperatures as I thought this would stress the yeast and be more in line with the rule of 30. Sounds like this was the wrong way to go!


Cheers