Phenolic - Clove taste

[Kev R]

Hi
For a few brews i have had a slight clove taste. Pretty much ruled out infection as my sanitary practices are probably over the top, and its not medical or bandied.
Ive only detected this taste with US 05 & 04, where i use wheat as greater than 15% of the grain bill.
So would i be correct in thinking that wheat throws this clove spicy note.Or perhaps a combination with specific yeasts.
Cheers
Kev

 

[manticle]

First, no matter how good sanitation is, it is only a type of risk minimisation.
Secondly as far as I'm aware, you get more ferulic acid production using wheat malt which influences 4-vinyl guaicol production by yeast (clove phenol).

What temps are you mashing in at?

 

[Kev R]

Mash in and mash at 65 for 60 min

 

[manticle]

You may be super sensitive to it.
If it's unpleasant and you're not making weizens just stop using wheat.

 

[Kev R]

Thanks Manticle, most prob correct. Cant help feeling the yeast contributes though.

 

[manticle]

Yeast does contribute. It's a yeast derived character influenced by a chemical pathway beginning with the malt.

 

[TheWiggman]

How much yeast are you pitching and what are your ferment temps? Not 100% sure but I think an under pitch could contribute.

 

[Killer Brew]

Clove flavoured phenolics can also be caused by wild yeast infections. Where do you brew?

 

[Weizguy]

Neither S-04 or S-05 are yeast that are designated as POF.
POF yeasts have the relevant biological tendency and appropriate fermentation pathway to produce phenolic off flavours.
The yeasts which can throw a POF are mostly wild and then some Belgian-style and Weizen yeasts.

There is no such thing as a wheat yeast. Wheat beers can be fermented by any yeast, but some give the right blend of flavours.
There is no such thing as clove production by a non-POF yeast.

I suggest you bring some of your beer to the next HUB meeting for evaluation, or visit the Brewman, or drop a bottle to me at work (Adamstown - send me a pm) and you'll get suitable feedback. Then you'll know if you're not cleaning the tap properly or if you have massive sensitivity to POF. I know which way I'd put my money on.

 

[panzerd18]

If you don't like clove, stay away from T-58. It has bucket loads of it.

 

[Kev R]

Thanks
If not the club meeting i will pick up grain on Sat from Brewman, i will take a sample.

 

[fraser_john]

I've also found Hallertau-Mittlefrugh (.sp?) produces a clovey like spiciness that I just can't stand, think I am super sensitive to clove, even decent German Weizens that are balanced on the clove side are too much for my palate. Had to dump many hefes before I figured it out and stopped using Hallertau-Mitt as the bittering hop! Tettnang all the way now.

 

[kaiserben]

I've also found Hallertau-Mittlefrugh (.sp?) produces a clovey like spiciness that I just can't stand, think I am super sensitive to clove, even decent German Weizens that are balanced on the clove side are too much for my palate. Had to dump many hefes before I figured it out and stopped using Hallertau-Mitt as the bittering hop! Tettnang all the way now.

Interesting. I hate clove, but love Hallertauer Mittelfrüh. However I do tend to use Tettnang in my weizens and completely avoid anything resembling a ferulic acid rest.

But there is always some ferulic acid there from a grist high in wheat even from a simple, single infusion mash.

 

[Brewman_]

Thanks
If not the club meeting i will pick up grain on Sat from Brewman, i will take a sample.

Absolutely, bring a sample and we can taste it.

Cheers Steve