pH meter recommendations

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I use high end bench top pH meters in the lab on a regular basis. If you don't calibrate them at the start of the day they can be wildly out of range (especially if the probe is getting old or isn't being treated well). Sometimes they aren't but you will never know unless you do a comparison with another calibrated meter......which is a waste of time.
 
I have a Omega PHH-7011 and find it more than adequate. ±0.01 accuracy, and I've yet to notice it drifting between calibrations. Shipped from the US (you can only buy it from the manufacture directly) will cost around $200 all up, but it does come with a case, buffer/probe solutions etc.
 
Got mine today in the mail. It arrived in just under 2 weeks B) I should be able to use it for this Sundays brew. A few questions....

Should I calibrate it before use?

Will I be able to take multiple reading on brew day with out calibrating in between? So can I take a reading, add a few drops of phosphoric to adjust, take another reading...etc

I have just got Brun Water 3.4 which I havnt used yet but I may have to use it in order to get an idea of how much phosphoric to use. Usual story. Heaps to do in no time.
 
Also I have seen electrode cleaning solution for sale with the calibrations solutions. Will I need to get some of this and how often should I use it?
 
Next one. The calibration solutions needs de-ionised water. Is distilled water ok to use? Apparently they are not the same. How far are you supposed to go with this ****? ie if you mix the solution into 250ml of de ionised water what do you mix it in and how clean does it have to be? what water do you rinse the clean container with? ffs. I am over thinking it.
 
nosco said:
Got mine today in the mail. It arrived in just under 2 weeks B) I should be able to use it for this Sundays brew. A few questions....

Should I calibrate it before use? Absolutely

Will I be able to take multiple reading on brew day with out calibrating in between? So can I take a reading, add a few drops of phosphoric to adjust, take another reading...etc Yes, but rinse it with de-ionised/distilled water in between uses. I just put some in a spray bottle and kept it by the brew station.

I have just got Brun Water 3.4 which I havnt used yet but I may have to use it in order to get an idea of how much phosphoric to use. Usual story. Heaps to do in no time.
As far as I know, both the de-ionised and distilled water work just as well for the purposes needed in pH meters.

Regarding the cleaning solution, I never ordered a cleaning solution, but I did get the electrode storage solution. Electrodes should never go dry between uses, so after you clean the probe with distilled/de-ionised water you should put some of the storage solution in the cap that goes over the electrode.

They're fussy things...
 
Calibrate at beginning of each brew day. No need for calibration on each reading, that is far too much overkill. Deionised/distilled water from the supermarket should be fine I'd say. I'm pretty sure the reason you use that sort of water is to not affect the PH readings you take (deionised/distilled water has pretty much no buffering capacity hence it in a way does not have a PH because it will easily take on the PH of whatever other solution etc is put into it).
 
Nosco

You are most likely on top of it already but from my reading of this topic on HBT http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=198460 and other links, publications there are a few procedural things you need to follow when measuring you mash pH
  • Use a fresh sample each time you calibrate you meter and don't return/keep the mixture for next time. Here's a link on how to calibrate your meter http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=302256
  • Check your local HBS they will most likely sell/have premix bottles of pH 4.0 and 7.0
  • Cool the sample to room temperature (20C) before inserting the pH meters otherwise you won't get a true reading
  • It may/will take several minutes for the pH meter to stabilize in the mash liquid so don't react to the first initial read out
  • The pH reading at the start of your mash isn't representative of the actual value value it will settle on. About 15 mins into your mash is when you should see the correct reading this could well be controlled by the grain bill and how you have acidified the mash (Acid [lactic or phosphoric] or Acid malt)
  • Bru'n Water and AJ deLange (above link) both talk about mash's with a mash thickness of about 3lts per Kg (1.5qts per lb) and i'm not sure what effects thinner mash's (full vol BIAB or Braumeister where the liquor to grain ration is much higher) will have on the final result because from my reading the thinner mash results in a difference in mash water alkalinity (buffering capacity) which in turn will impact on mash pH but hopefully Bru'n Water takes that into consideration even though it doesn't state so in the write up
If you thought going all grain was "crossing over onto the dark side" welcome to the "mystery and complexity of brewing water chemistry"

Many happy hours (and hours) of research and reading

Cheers

Wobbly
 
Nesco

I guess I should have also added that it's the acid action of the grain bill on the alkalinity of the mash water which will not (from my reading) occur instantly at "dough in". It takes time for the grain to acidify the mash liquid and that is why (as I understand) you will not get a true reading of mash pH until about 15 minutes after dough in

If you take a reading at the start of the mash and react and add acid (to lowerpH) or bicarbonate (to raise pH) because the reading is either too high or too low you could well end up with your mash being way off target

Cheers

Wobbly
 
Thanks all. It was a very long brew day on Sunday between learning how to use the pH meter and writing up new water profiles for Brun Water. First using acid addition too.
I was a bit worried that the calibrating solutions were 1 use only. My main aim is to use the meter to check against Brun Water and then once im confident that BW is accurate (which i think it is) i wont bother with the meter any more. BW does allow for biab. It has the mash water volume and the sparge water volume. You just put the full volume in mash ans zero in sparge.

I had kind of figured after a few reading that you have to wait a bit to take a reading. The first few reading where not the same as BW predicted but the longer i waited the closer it got. I didnt wait long enough though. I had alot going on.

I have alot to read and learn about water in brewing but for now im just interested in getting the right pH and learning how different additions will affect the flavour, which all you need to know i guess.
Thanks for all the info. Cant wait to see how my beer tastes now!
 
Listen to the Brew Strong 4-part series on water adjustments. It's the most concise telling I've found, with a great example in the third show of how water additions affect colour and flavour. Listen to the whole series though.
 
Goid said:
The accuracy isn't very good -/+ 0.2 Ph.
Hmm didn't notice that. And have ordered it. I'll have to think about whether I keep it or send it back. I'll check out more reviews.
 
I used to sell and service the Hanna meters and electrodes.

The "HI98128 pHep®5 pH/Temperature Tester with 0.01 pH resolution" is as good as you can get without buying a discrete pH meter with separate electrode and temperature probes. The Hanna electrodes are some of the best on the market; construction and chemistry are World class.

The HI98128 has a replaceable probe; unplug the old and plug in the new. It also has an extractable cloth junction. This means you can renew/refresh a clogged electrode many times, this is handy if you're reading hopped/oily/high-protein specimens. As a field meter they're hard to beat (for watery type samples). (Don't use these for sewerage or wine.) For homebrew and hydroponics etc they're money very well spent.

Always keep any electrode hydrated. Storage solution will give you years of life on the single electrode. Don't store them in buffer nor in water! If filling the cap of the electrode with storage solution, be very careful not to hydraulically damage the bulb or the junction (it's possible to force solution into the junction and this ruins the chemistry of the 1/2 cell).

Most of the cheap all-in-one meters are clones of the early generation Hanna instruments. Hanna was making their old models for rebadging, but I don't know which badges anymore. The electronics in the clones is usually OK and is often much beter than the chemistry in the electrode, but you need both to make a good reading. Only buy cheap if it's from a long establshed scientific supplier... but, even then, don't expect it to last. The DOA rate on the low-end stuff is high, from all mfgrs/vendors.

If you find a working second hand meter, that has a BNC connector for the pH electrode, it could be a good buy if the elctronics are working fine. Around $80-100 will buy a new electrode that will last years. Be cautious of 2nd hand meters that show any signs of water damage or salting on the case. If you find a working waterproof Hanna meter in a bargain sale, buy it! (They're practically bullet proof.)

Cheers
 
I'm just about to order this ^

which buffer solution should I get for it? there are three options:

pH4.0
pH 7.0
pH 10

cheers
 
You would have to check the ph meter i think? Mine uses all 3 to calibrate.
 
I'm just about to order this ^

which buffer solution should I get for it? there are three options:

pH4.0
pH 7.0
pH 10

cheers
4.0 and 7.0
 
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