Pasteurisation - Stopping fermentation in cider

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Hi Lyrebird, if 25 PU is considered adequate, how long, at 70 degrees, should I keep the temperature at? Excuse my ignorance. I have done little cider brewing.

Technically you only need 50 seconds at 70 to achieve 25 PU

Since your ramp speeds to and from top heat are finite, you will always accumulate more PU than the calculation. You also accumulate more heat damage. Since heat damage starts from a lower temperature but has a lesser slope in general the higher the top heat the lower the heat damage at a given PU.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Campden tablets and potassium sorbate is so much easier, usually used in sweet/desert wines, Lyrebird may be able to help with dosage as I haven't done it in a year or 2.

I would not use SO2 and sorbate on anything that has not been sterile filtered.

 

[malt junkie]

I would not use SO2 and sorbate on anything that has not been sterile filtered.

Now that's a short answer to complex reasoning. Care to elaborate? Like I said this was a standard process for me a year ago when I was knocking out almost as much cider as beer. I blame Molly and her sisters (my nieces).

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Sorbate is basically a short chain fatty acid that works by interrupting cell wall formation during reproduction. It will prevent adventitious yeast from reproducing and starting refermentation but it will not kill cells that are already present. Some yeasts it won't touch at all.

IMO it is therefore best to remove all such cells before adding sorbate.

Read this: https://www.extension.iastate.edu/wine/sites/www.extension.iastate.edu/files/wine/SorbicAcid1.pdf

note that Zygosaccharomyces bailii is very commonly found in concentrates. We often add extra conc to a wine that is destined for the US*. If we do this more than a few days before crossflowing it there will be a detectable increase in turbidity due to Z bailii growth.

* And raise the pH / reduce the acid. Seppoes like things big and blowsy, hence APA.

 

[malt junkie]

Ok got that.

Here was my method.

MJ Burton Union Yeats (reasoning it drops like a stone)

At Desired gravity cold crash to 0c, then rack and maintain for 10 days.

At 10 days rack on to campden tabs (crushed) stir to dissolve, to kill the majority of yeast.

2 hours later add potassium sorbate, keg and carbonate.

I had a bottle I CPBF'ed sit at room temp for three months FG 1030 (yeah those girls liked sweet) no perceptible increase in carb or affect on taste.

 

[Blind Dog]

Despite what I've seen a number of times on various forums:

- Campden tablets (usually potassium metabisulphite, sometimes sodium metabisulphite) are used to kill off various unwanted wild yeasts and bacteria, but don't work on normal cider, beer or wine yeasts. In fact, traditional cider making in the uk included burning sulphur inside barrels before the addition of the pressed juice to kill off unwanted wild yeasts but leaving the desired wild yeasts to thrive and ferment the juice

- Sorbates retard yeast growth, and stop reproduction, but don't kill existing yeast. So it's use reduces but does not eliminate the risk of refermentation by itself. It is usually used (in cider) in conjunction with filtering and campden tablets to produce sweeter ciders where pasteurisation is not appropriate and keeving was not practised (it's rare in the UK nowadays) or was unsuccessful.

- Lactose simply does not work in cider. Personal opinion, but a cider sweetened with lactose just tastes weird

A lot of small UK cider makers simply ferment to dryness and backsweeten with sucralose or another artificial sweetener to produce semi-sweet and sweet versions, and that works on a Homebrew scale as well, but care is required as a little goes a long way. If you go that route, sucralose would be my preference.

At least one of the bigger 'real ' cider makers relies on apple selection, malo-lactic fermentation (MLF), maturation on oak and blending for its sweeter ciders. Not sure how that translates to a Homebrew scale, but with MLF cultures and oak staves available, it's certainly possible to get some of the way there.

Flash pasteurisation is also used, as are centrifuges and the more traditional methods that mimick traditional champagne bottling methods. Keeving (basically a method to clear the juice and reduce nutrients before fermentation, resulting in a sweater tasting cider) is still popular in Normandy and Brittany, but seems to have died out in England

 

[earle]

All but, but not totally. I swear I've had back sweetened kegs still tick over slightly even after ignoring them in the keezer for weeks at 3 deg.

Agreed, they will continue to tick over ever so slightly. Also, if you let them warm up and use through a jockey box they will get cranking again and become noticeably dryer in a day or so.

The very slow fermentation is the basis for perpetual cider as described by Bribie G.

 

[Airgead]

The biggest problem with pasteurisation is that it's not a great method at a homebrew scale. You either need to set up a flash pasteuriser which is mighty technical and expensive or you end up boiling bottles which is (IMHO) unsafe and due to the long soak times needed to make sure the liquid in the centre of the bottle has time to heat up, you end up with cider that tastes like apple sauce.

For my money, sulphites to knock down the yeast population, crash chill and leave it a few days for the yeast to settle out, rack to reduce the yeast population even further then a dose of sorbate to stop any yeast remaining from multiplying is a much better and safer method for homebrewers.

Pasteurisation is a great method at commercial scale but it's hard to do properly at a small scale.

 

[lael]

I've done bottle pasteurising by boiling. Can confirm that the result tastes bad for a while. Like hot apple solvent for at least a week. Then like apple sauce for a month? Tastes awesome again after a couple of months.

I've had some bottles bust. Super scary. I would only recommend using coopers bottles or maybe champagne bottles - but haven't tried that. And put the bottles in a box/ milk crate after hot.

Now that I am kegging would I pasteurise? Prob not. That bottle exploding nearby (lhbs 650ml style) was more than enough to make you think twice.

 

[Airgead]

Did it start tasting awesome again or did you just get used to the taste?

 

[fraser_john]

Just be aware if heat pasteurizing without eliminating as much yeast cells as possible will result in the yeast cells rupturing and spilling their delightfully vegemitey goodness into your final product.......

Tried this twice with brews that had been crashed chilled, gelatined, racked to remove as much yeast material as possible. The vitamin B smell & taste was enough to dump both attempts.......