Parti-BIAB idea

[Bribie G]

I've done mashes at lower temperatures such as 63 to try and get a dry fermentable wort for Aussie Lagers, Pale Ales etc.
I've done mashes right in the middle at 66 to get a balanced fermentable / dextrinous wort
I've done Hochkurz mashes starting at 62 then stepping to 72 then to mashout
And I've done high mashes at 72 for lower alcohol beers with heaps of body

I'm spending more time now with UK ales and have been reading up on Fullers' parti gyle methods, that got me thinking about something I've never tried.

ref Palmer How to Brew:




How about a parti gyle BIAB with the idea of not producing two distinct beers from one grain bill, but two distinct worts that are combined in the kettle.

Going back to Palmer, he likens mashing to clearing up a dead tree. You start with chainsaw to cut it into manageable branches and poles then cut those bits into smaller bits, then cut those into twigs ...
There will still be a few odd big bits left that can't be cut up so at the end you get a range of sizes of sugars from dextrins down to simple sugars.


I'm going to try the following today:

Mash the grain bill at 72 for 40 minutes with half the normal strike liquor. Raise the bag and dump the bag and the mash into my esky (to keep it warm) that I use as a "piggyback" masher when I do double batches.
Ensure that the urn is on so that the first runnings do not drop into Beta Amylase territory. Heat to just under boiling to kill enzymes and drain into a holding bucket.

Meanwhile put run the other half of the strike liquor into the urn, put bag back in urn, mix an extra kilo of malt into the mash, so that the mash ends up at 63 then mash it for 40 minutes, raise the bag and drain off all the second runnings and heat rapidly to denature the enzymes.

Pour the first runnings back into the urn and boil and hop as normal.

The idea is to have short chain sugaz and long chain sugaz but little or nothing in between. A mid temp mash at 66 would give a range of sugars which I guess would give a different character or mouthfeel?

What I'm investigating is whether I will get an interestingly flavoured beer that is both full of body but also has the freshness and kick of a full strength beer. A sort of mild with a bite. It will be a red beer.


There should be a fair amount of sugars left in the mash after the first runnings have been extracted, but the kilo of fresh grain is to get a stronger second runnings rather than just the pure "leftovers" after the first runnings have been taken off.

edited: quick re arrange of some sentences.

 

[verysupple]

Interesting idea, Bribie G. I'm sure it will produce a different beer to any of the mash shedules you mentioned at the top, but I'm not sure it'll give you only short and long chain sugars.

I presume by short chains you mean glucose up to maltose which make up most of the fermentables in a typical wort, and long chain sugars you mean dextrins and larger? Either way there's no way to only get either alpha or beta amylase working independently. Also you need alpha for beta to do very much. Going back to Palmer's tree analogy, the beta can't get to the small branches and chomp away at the end until the alpha chops them off the main branch.

Now, hypothetically, if you could make a wort with nothing between the short and long chain sugars, would it be very different? Glucose up to maltose make up a large majority of the wort sugars and then you have dextrins etc. making up a small part. I'm not sure that there is really much in the way of maltotriose and the like that you would be eliminating.

Here's a ref outlining a typical wort breakdown by sugar types that may be of interest.
http://www.brewmorebeer.com/brewing-sugars/

 

[dago001]

Interesting idea this one BribieG. As discussed on another site, the Fullers method produces 4 beers from one wort. I did get me thinking about how you would achieve that using BIAB. I am sure this method will work, but would it be worth trying just mashing the first "half" in the urn, and using the esky for the second "half", assuming that you can get your water in the esky at the right temp. This would allow you to boil your first mash while doing the second. The Fullers method is to blend the different runnings to create the final OG, so by adding 1 kg of malt to the "second" runnings, it will not be recreating that particular method. Either way it will be interesting.
I would be interested to know what the SG of your first and second mash is, as you may find that you dont need the extra kilo of malt. I dont really like to overcomplicate my brewing, so the long chain short chain stuff in your post kinda goes over my head a little. I understand it, but dont get caught up on it.
My brew day later this week will be doing the partigyle/blend method, but I can only boil one brew at a time. I suppose I could put one blend back throught the herms to ramp up the temp until the kettle is free. This is the only part of this process I am not too sure of. I might need to get an over the side element to brew this way.
Cheers and sorry for the partial hijack
LB

Edited for night shift spelling

 

[Bribie G]

Kegged the brew just now, but it's been in an 8 degree fridge for about 10 days so is quite clear and a bit carbed, so supping a couple of leftovers as real ale.

Man this stuff has more body than Clive Palmer. Finished at 1018 and is smooth and luscious but not cloying, quite a surprising light finish that lets the hops shine. yum yum yum yum.

This is definitely one of the best UK's I've ever made, will do the next one same method.

I mentally "over engineered" the plan and realised that I didn't need to put the bag from the first mash into a bucket, I just left it hanging - why disturb it.
Then when I'd run off the strong wort I just poured in the new strike liquor and dropped bag in and added a kg of extra malt.

I used my over the side element to speed up ramping times as well as keeping the second lot of hot liquor to temperature, and ended up only an hour longer than a normal single mash brew. :super:

Edit: OG was 1055 which should have given a 5.6% beer, ended up around 4.7%